HRE - Uniqueness, mechanic and army rant. There is a lot of potential lying fallow

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
290

Right, that was what I was spotlighting. Council Hall lacks longevity. I don’t like the comparison with 2 ranges.

Burgraves limitations are more apparent earlier, and less apparent later, which has its own problems.
I’d still take Burgrave over Wynguard.

Having predictable landmarks isn’t just an HRE problem though
A lot of civs lack real choices.

HRE even have relatively good landmarks. I just think they are forced to rely on regnitz too much for their eco, and maybe they are missing a unique unit, or at least some active abilities, or something else that pushes a unique combat playstyle to spice things up.

291

idk Id take Wynguard every day, Wyngaurd is like 5 units for the price of 4 units and a treb for 500 resources which is super cheap. It’s like 400 resources for 1400 resources worth of units and trains much faster.

292

Trebs take up pop space and aren’t very useful.
Having such a mixed army is annoying when you’re trying to respond to what an enemy is building.

293

Meinwerk is also useable, it’s what people get if they want to feudal all-in.

even if you go all in in feudal the chapel is better, even if you reserch all the tech avaible in the feudal age you will only save 50 food, 218 gold and 37 wood (most of the time you won’t reserch all of them) and it will take you 6:30m

1 Like
294

You also save an extra 150w because you don’t have to build a blacksmith.

Its complicated, because obviously the Aachen buff can go on and on - but in the extreme short term (8-10 minutes, having gone up around 5~) I think Meinwerk+Prelate just standing around is about the same as Aachen hitting 18 working villagers. If you can get more than this under the influence then Aachen is clearly superior. If less, it takes time to catch up - and Meinwerk is therefore helping that 8-9 minute ram rush more.

As people have said, if you can successfully Professional Scout for a lot of deer Aachen win’s easily - but I’m suspect you’ll manage versus Rus/Mongols/French and possibly even Chinese.

295

In my expierience its totaly fine if u get 1,5 deer spots. 7 x 350 food = 2450 food for one deer spot

But the dream spawn for a aachen chapel would be gold wood and deer. When u get this u have a fast castle safe. Its possible at Hill and Dale for example.

Its hard to say what is good for every game / map / matchup. Its always up to the resource spawns.

296

Yeah, the landmark is not worth getting at all. If it gave unique upgrades, maybe it would be worth it. Maybe they should give it the “trains 5 barracks units” along with the cheap researches. Then rework Burgrave entirely into something new. I am grasping for anything to improve the HRE.

1 Like
297

yes but the longboweman is also a special unit and it is cheap. I think th HRE can have both a spearman wich have the option to figth MAA maybe you need 1.5 spearman to kill one MAA and you the Landsknecht will bring in splash dmg and the buff of the prealte because this buff is only usable when the unit wich can bring it is fast as your army and not slow down the units.

1 Like
298

is a joke.
They should realy look into the rus monk to make him right.
To fit the HRE thematic the monk should be able to attack too and buffs the units around them after he hits someone. To buff single units is so unefficent that nobody uses it.

1 Like
299

this will be an option or the landsknecht is able to buff units arround.

300

I think 5 units will be to migthy but 2 or 3 units will be ok maybe only MAA or spermann will be fine even

301

I have always been an infantry guy, so the HRE is my favorite Civ, despite the facte that they are somewhat a weaker faction.
You are right, the landsknecht is not worth their price and should be stronger. The only reason i continue playing with the HRE is the unique upgrades for the man at arms and the Catedral bonus for the relics.

3 Likes
302

HRE seems not be focused on the holy orders, the religion mechanic is focused around the bishoprics so buffing individual units out of combat makes sense thematically. The issue is if you are buffing individual units out of combat, 30 second buffs is too short to effectively make use of at all, it needs to be like 60 seconds or something.

1 Like
303

At the moment I play the MAA rush with the meinwerk its still funny but i play only vs hard and very hard ai so they are not so great with dealing a rush

1 Like
304

Did anyone manage to get HRE mastery yet?
Having hard time beating Ai on hardest.

1 Like
305

just max resources dark age build 200 spearman and siege enemy landmarks if you want to cheese it.

306

I got it a while ago. I was one of the lucky few to not encounter the problems with the poor wording on their challenges. I beat the hardest ai by simply doing an all-in 2 barracks and tower proxy with spears next to the AI’s base.

image

307

Hey guys,

I found a list of the civilizations unique technologies at Age of Empires IV | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom. Thanks for that :wink: .

So Im listing/coping and short commentating at all to show how plane the HRE is in comparison and that there is objectivly more to add here to make it deeper.*

Abbasid Dynasty

Composite Bows, Camel Barding, Camel Handling, Camel Support, Camel Rider Shields, Medical Centers, Improved Processing, Agriculture, Boot Camp, Teak Masts, Faith, Presercation of Knowledge, Phalanx, Armored Caravans, Grand Bazaar, Spice Roads, Fresh Foodstuffs

The Abbasids have many unique technologies and I thinkg nobody will complain with there uniqueness and how they feel. A complain that I would understand is that they have only 4 wings to age up (“landmark choices”) but they make it good again with there insane felxible army composition. They have Camels in 2 Variants, culverins and can build siege with infantery. A very unique civ army wise imo.

Chinese

Reload Drills, Ancient Techniques, Pyrotechnics, Imperial Examination, Extra Hammocks, Reuseable Barrels, Battle Hardened, Extra Materials, Handcannon Slits

I thing I dont have to say something about china xDD. The technologies here arnt the most but they are insanly strong. Pyrotechnics isinsane alone and buffs every gundpowder unit from them by range what is unfair imo but I hope they will hit china with a nerf hammer soon.

Delhi Sultanate

Armored Beasts, Siege Elephant, Forced March, Village Fortresses, Honed Blades, Tranquil Venue, Patchwork Repairs, Loockout Towers, Reinforced Foundations, All-Seeing Eye, Efficient Production, Sanctity, Swiftness, Zeal, Hearty Rations, Slow-Burnung Defenses

So before all. Im taking the state of Dehli after all research bugs are fixed !
There looking great ! What makes me said from a HRE players view, is that they need only 2 technologies to make there Man at arms better than the HRE ones. Honed Blades and Forced March are insanly good to get the Maa at the enemy and get there work done. Sadly there better at that… good for them. There have even good and flexible tech for there scholars too, to boost productions or fighting power. And even a “boring” tech like slow burning defenses is double as strong as the HRE variant but i will go back on it.
Overall good after bugfixes,

English

Network of Citadels, Enclosures, Arrow Volley, Setup Camp, Armor Clad, Shipwrights, Shattering Projectiles

OK? I think we all see that this is realy plane. The English would deserve a bit more too imho expecially lategame aka imperial. I dont know what but we are here in the HRE ttopic so please englsih guys get some good suggestions out :wink:

French

Crowssbow Stirrups, Gambesons, Royal Bloodlines, Enlistment Incentives, Long Guns, Cantled Saddles, Chivalry

In comparison to the english I´m fine with the low amount of tech here because the frenchs are overloaded with boni from the start and even things like royal attilery arnt listed here too. So I thing there quite fine right know.

Mongols

Whistling Arros, Yam Network, Piracy, Superior Mobility, Monastics Shrines, Additional Torches, Raid Bounty, Stone Bounty, Siha Bow Limbs, Stone Commerce

Mongols are mongols lul. There strong,fun and a bit over the edge. I think nowbody will complain that they are a fantastic designed civ.

Rus

Fine Tuned Guns, Boyars Fortitude, Mounted Precision, Knight Sabers, Cedar Hulls, Clinker Construction. Siege Crew Training, Wandering Town, Blessing Duration, Improved Blessing, Saints Reach, Banded Army, Doublle Time, Castle Watch, Castle Turret

In my opinion Rus is the best civ in the game ! There amazing in land/open maps and the best on water. They are the best designed civ in my opinion and everything falls in comparison to them. Good job but pls make all the others nearly 80% of them PLEASE.

HRE

Slate and Stone Constructions - lol for real? +5? Dehli gets +10 fire armor so double the power (only def builds ok)
Bendedictions - useless tech for real
Reinforced Defenses - ok to good tech if ur bunkering up but nothing more
Devoutness - one of the view good ones to double down to a civ mechanic we allready have
Marching Drills - nesseseary but not good enought inmy opinion. Should be 15-20%. Its bad in comparisons with Froce March from Dehli.
Heavy Maces + Two handed Weapons - together the are a good upgrade but u have to research 2 techs at the same Age and it feels that the only reason this is ingame is that the model designers made several cool looking models for the Maa
Fire Sations - ehm ok? Sea battles are often won by massing ships so it would be overwhelmed. Maybe its good on hybritmaps were u dont commit to much to water
Inspired Warrios - this tech is a joke. The prelate has to stand still and is bufing every unit single target. Its usless to try to buff a whole army. The buff is runing out before he or they finish there job …
Riveted Chain Mail - hers is a good one after spears aka bracing is fixed but it will only buffs them vs other meeles. Thats ok but not amazing but sadly way better than nearly all of the rest.

Please give ur Opinions to the techs too. But this is the reason im always saying that the HRE is in such a bad state. There looking amazing and there art and sounddesign is amazing too but there tech and army cause of that is borderline plane and blanked even with fixed bracing bugs.

They need good working Landsknechte and at least one extra special Units to get there own flavor… Maybe a longer range gunpowder Unit to match the chinese for example.
PLEASE.

@SavageEmpire566 Can u please say something to this topic and whole discussion here. We and I know that ur a Community manager and not in a/the balance / dev team but can u please communicate to us If this problems and disscutions were transportet to the Dev Teams? Are they in the Devs Minds ?
U see that this topic is not falling off and gets even more own topics. PLEASE say something

2 Likes
308

I see a lot of people avocating sweeping changes. What would a couple of small changes be capable of? I humbly propose the following:

  1. New upgrade for Landsknechte that gives them the “brace” ability against cavalry. This makes them do slightly less dps than a spear man in one-on-one battles vs Cav but their AOE damage easily makes them much better in bigger battles.

  2. Prelates holding a relic can wololo to inspire army dudes, should make it more attractive to send out a body guard while grabbing relics as well as help when pushing for the end-game.

All in all I think we’ll see what relic has planned soon, after all they said the wanted to push other civs up to the level of the Mongols rather than nerfing stuff so I’m hopeful for future changes :slight_smile:

310

Largely I agree with this post. Delhi only gets the fire armor for outposts and keeps though which is why it is +10, HRE’s also protects landmarks, but both techs feel kinda weak tbh as in imp, siege is the way buildings usually die, not torches.

Venediction would be fine if it was more than 15%, China gets 100% for non defensive buildings as a passive, wth is even 15% construction speed (pretty much only in your base),

Fire stations is fine, most civs have really meh dock techs and HRE is already a top 3 water civ, it helps you when you fight on your docks a good amount.

Inspired warriors just needs to last longer, makes sense to have a prelate give the buff to reinforcements or before you engage like blessing warriors to go to the holy land. The issue is half the time the buff is gone by the time units get to the fight).

Riveted chain mail is actually sleeper high tier tech, it makes late game and trash army HRE so much better (would be much better if brace bug fixed).