make berserks build donjon
I donât get why people keep claiming that Berserk is above their counters, get they the same PA as Elite Eagle Warrior or HP like Teutonic Knight?
The only unit that can confirm was above their counters isnât in AOE 2, but rather the Carolean of AOE 3 11
Vikings is very good but far from broken. Removing thumb ring seems a devasting change. They can only rely on infantry.
If lack of thumb ring really hurts their gameplay then giving them more HP would help push people into infantry more especially since they already lack a solid late game. Although I think we should wait before making anymore changes.
So more HP to infantry huh? more HP in Feudal means their Men-at arms opening would be pretty broken.
If youâre responding to my statement I mentioned 20%/25%/30% HP feudal/castle/imperial. So not adding anymore than the changes in feudal. Could even lower the beserk base HP to keep the current beserk HP the same.
Ok but how helps more HP in castle/Imperial age? Only makes them even better at melee, where they already do really well
Would also help against archer units. Infantry is pretty inferior to archers and cavalry so would help close the gap since they wouldnât have FU archery or cavalry units.
HP has very little impact vs pierce attacks.
Even 1 more volley is a big deal. Depending on the archer mass it could be even 2. Also makes champions harder to be killed by skirms. Makes it much harder to take out an army of say skirms and champions which can allow the champions more time to close the distance on archers or push more easily and take out buildings.
Laughs in Eldorado.
Why not calculate this?
Castle Age
Right now, Vikings LS have 69 (nice) HP, survives 18 xbow shot compared to 15 of generic. After the patch they will have 72 HP, will survive exact 18 xbow shot. So no impact or buff at all against xbow. With your proposal, they will have 75 HP, will take 19 xbow shot. 1 more than current situation.
I guess your proposal is logical since extra 3 HP is basically doing nothing.
Imperial Age
Currently Champion has 84 HP, can survive 17 Arbs volley. With 30% more, they will have 91 HP, will take 19 arbs shot - 2 more. Not that big of buff and maybe not intended either as devs do want to nerf them over all.
2 Likes
Jesus christ. The most obnoxious civ to play against gets their ridiculously overpowered arb fast imp NOT REMOVED, not gutted, itâs just not as strong as their arbs fire a bit slower.
And everyone is crying a river.
This of course comes with 2 huge buffs for the infantry line of the civ.
Their extra HP maa already traded too well against everything bar japanese maa and zerks are notorious for being perhaps the best infantry UU in the game due to the amount of buffs they stack with the regen, anti cav damage and movement speed, and you say letâs give them splash damage too?
Ridiculous. At least give it 2 months to play against a fast imp without thumb ring and maa with 54 HP and zerks with 14 damage and god knows how much HP in the castle age before you request buffs for perhaps the strongest civ on a magnitude of maps.
7 Likes
And are less accurate. I agree that we should wait to see how they perform. If anything it should be a small upgrade. I agree the proposals were way too far over the top strong for a civ thatâs already very good.
I agree with you about thumb ring removal. Vikings eco should be nerfed not small archer-line nerf. This Hub change isnât nerf to OP Vikings, it is buff to already OP Vikings due to Militia-line buff and nerf to walls.
However, I totally disagree about Berserk. Berserk is underwhelming unit considering it is most expensive unit to upgrade + it is best unit Vikings get in late Imperial. For instance, Woad Raider and Samurai isnât by far worse than Berserk. Berserk is only little better than other infantry units. Last introduced is even stronger than Berserk.
I prefer Woad Raider over Berserk in a thousands of situations. Woad Raider has cheaper upgrades, it is better in raiding, it has less creation time and Woad Raider is supported by legendary Celts siege and Halberdier (Celts Halberdier is better than Vikings Pikeman).
Liereyy said Vikings nerf is good, and heâs experimented with Vikings, if a 2k says that, then is fine I think.
No offense to Liereyy, because he is obviously a skilled player, but I generally avoid relying on the wisdom of a teenager when looking for complex answers. A lot of the civ balance analysis Iâve seen done relies on math and statistics that is not covered in high school.
I wouldnât really take the word of an individual like Viper or Daut as fact either, but at least theyâve been around for the last decade of balance changes and meta shifts.
Obviosly pro opinions arenât 100% the only thing, but they know, and play the game this game wayyy better than you and me, pros go and use even the smallest of the bonuses to win.
Good example were the Tatars pre nerf, this civ never showed on winrates that they were overbuffed, but all pros already confirmed they became too strong on open maps, and Badboy climbed the ladder drastically using only Tatars.
4 Likes
if the devs followed the buffs/nerfs ppl comment here in the forum this game would be the most unbalanced RTS ever created XD
5 Likes
What kind of analysis did you see ? Sound interesting !
Well, down to the core, it is not that complex:
- High elo: high elo players are satisfied and think it is a good change that doesnât make a civ OP or UP => it is good
- Mid elo: mid elo players manage to take advantage of civ strengths and deal with civ weaknesses, win rates stay fine (45% to 55%) => it is good
- Low elo: every unit has a counter => it is good
It doesnât really matter whether he is a teenager or not. What matters is:
- He likes to play Viking
- he is the pro who tries to win tournaments.
- he is one of the 10 best players in the world in 1v1 open/hybrid RM, Team open/hybrid RM, 1v1 open/hybrid EW, Team open/hybrid EW
- he has (most likely) little to no experience in DM
- he may not have a good understanding of Black Forest and very closed maps (if so, he can still be carried by his general aoe2 skills).
3 Likes