I been told, seen like:
Nerf Chinese clocktower, 50% way to ob(I agree, needs nerf some).
Nerf Chinese building speeds, they tower rushing way to op.(Have you ever ASKED Mongol player?)
Nerf ZHU GE NU rush , that’s way to op (Many ways could counter it , go learn it)
Nerf IO, they could get gold home just sitting at home, boosting build production, boost resources gain.(There are many more things ob than this, go figure it out)
Nerf everything and bring Chinese braid back, Cuz that how they were looks like in ancient China.(Qing dynesty, even the logo of mastery of China is wrong, Chinese emperor don’t wear hat like that before Qing, and they don’t have long braid before Qing)
Oh also don’t forget Muslims, Delhi Abbasid should keep sucks
(That’s some of guys thinking, Ignore tures that Mongle get over 60% win rate and Rus over 50% due to overtuned HA in 1v1. Meanwhile China only got 48%, just better than HRM and DELHI, ABBSID. But crying that Chinese are ob ,Chinese got love of this game, Chinese must paid to relic to do so. FL this FL this that. I know most player mess FL in group game. I admit that Chines need some tunes. But I am saying it, some people here just want China get nerf because he/she don’t like it)
Guys, I am not saying that China should keep op. Some of you misunderstood my points here
if its overtuned it needs to be correct, however some guys crying nerf China just because its China, that’s my points here. Instead other op civs like Mongol and Rus, I also would say French Cuz they have many bonus like fast villagers, half cost on storage building, early knights, hulk ships at age 2.
Please stop talking. My abbasid camel, mutiny to Russ。now my name is musketeer camel
Some guys comment really confuse me like, They even said Mongols needs serious buff Cuz they could not farm stone with villagers. RUS should no nerf HA something like that
There are only 2 aspects of this civ atm that are problematic, at least in my opinion.
- their clocktower bombards have way too much HP(bombards I’m general have way too much HP though) and they have too much range and therefore they have no counter atm. Chinese bombards shouldn’t have that range, but when it comes to HP, I think they could nerf the base hp of all bombards and keep the 50% bonus for the clocktower so that the unit can be countered.
- and of course their fire lancers, which is being addressed by the devs.
Fix these 2 things and the civ will be fine. They will still be very powerful in late game(as they should since they strugle early and need to invest a lot to get there) but at least their late game units can be countered.
I agree Clocktower 50&hel is ob
I agree FL is OB in group battle.
But I just don’t know why so many just focus on it and crying that China overall ob.
Yep, OB to get 48% win rate in 1V1
People probably just refer more to team games or 1v1 maps were you easily wall off and turtle your way to imperial.
In a map like Arabia quite easy to pressure them, but black forest for example it’s a different story.
They get overall 48% win rate, but on closed maps that win rate goes way up, also at the higher level china gets a better win rate because top players are much more skilled at defending. I do believe that by just nerfing those 2 things china will be fine though
China isn’t the only option for close map, Delhi, French all can do it.
Even Mongol can do it. Only Abbasid suck right now
U could go check win rate on different map based on different civs
As I said, civ is fine, but its only these 2 things that kinda ruin the game as it forces players to rush the Chinese player so he doesn’t get to the point where he can spam clocktower bombards or fire lancers.
I’m only tired of my Delhi spearmen carrying large spaghetti into formation against knights.
I tell them it’s better than had they boiled the spaghetti, but still, semolina is not durable enough to counter cavalry. I would like to receive cooled steel mounted atop cornel rods, and some leather wrapped grips for the boys wouldn’t hurt either.
Do you know why so many players hate Chinese civ? Its because you know the game wont be fun if there is a Chinese player. I have played against RUS as well as Mongols and I enjoy because every player plays very unique and its always possible for both teams to turn the tides. If one of your teammate is chinese you know they wont help you. Most of them are selfish and will sacrifice you so they can make fire lancers to get ez win or spam siege.
Yea playing with/against china ruins the game. You are looking for 7th or 8th chinese landmark hidden in some side of map just to defeat them. They go full siege + few spears and you cannot do a single thing. You can’t even counter their bombards with any of anti-siege unit, even expensive knights can’t. So whats the point playing. I haven’t touched fire lancers.
Here are problems with china:
- First the most obvious, fire lancers needs nerf especially torch damage + area of effect + should not work against braced spears.
- No siege unit should have the range of anti siege unit. This applies to all civs. Bombard should not have 12 tile range. Also no speed buff should apply to siege units i.e yam network or dynasty buff. Its funny to see how siege units can run away from infantry.
- Problem with clock-tower is not just HP. 50% HP itself is ridiculous it should be around 25%. But also the problem with supervision. Siege workshops or landmark should not be supervised. Its extremely unfair. It costs 350 wood to build a single siege workshop and china gets 1 free from landmark which turns into 3 when supervised. You need 1050 wood to compete a landmark they get free for aging up.
So game feels very abusive. Either 8 bombards that run away somehow or 30 fire lancers that just make a hole in wall and destroy your landmarks or just hiding a landmark in corner to delay match so they can abuse more.
If you can not distinguish that all requests come from TG, where China can reach its peak in the Imp.
What even discuss with you?
PS 1vs1 if OP civs will be nerfed and China will survive… it would be same story, but now it’s “rush meta”, you rarely reach even castle age.
I play 4on4. Last 100 games there were 98 games that included at least one chinese with a total of about 200 picks of china total. Out of those 98 games there were 93 games ended due to firelancer shift click on landmarks.
Anyone who thinks this is okay, is an idiot.
Sure, but then change all horses charges to not work on spears. When using charge it will hit the first unit and if used properly normal knights can also hit charges on spears.
The reason why siege feels faster than infantry is because the torch animation and not because the speed of siege. Yuan Dynasty not affecting chinese siege is huge nerf to reinforcement capabilities of clockwork tower.
Also its easier to snipe bombards than snipe multiple springalds without overshooting so the 12 tile range against both is fine.
So much bs. The production is 3x and but at the same time the production is tied to clockwork tower meaning it will always required to be used. Just because the clockwork saves up 1050 wood isn’t big deal at all. How about we talk how much other civs can save as baseline? Delhi +20k gold + other resources? Abbassid -50% villager cost, HRE -75% + 4 TC’s, French just cheaper upgrades?, English cheaper farms?
Also the HP needs to be higher because again the siege is tied to clockwork tower and means china has no way to produces their clockwork tower siege efficiently especially when opponent makes more siege workshops to outproduce chinese siege.
did you try to protect bombards?
Only if you repair them and use spears to protect bombards.So IO should not be used on clocktower always.
Just learn how to protect bombards and repair them. For repairing select vil + click Z on bombard.
He has got a point though, no siege unit should move that fast and on top of that have that much hp and same range as the units that are supposed to counter them
Orly thanks for the tip I never knew but now I know. IO is always tied to clockwork…
Like I already explained. Siege is only faster because of the animation of melee torches. They get to range of throwing torch and they stand still for second to throw it and continue to run. IF the animation wasn’t made such point then it would effectively let melee run them.
MAA is literally like 0.1 tiles slower than fully upgraded bombard with Yam or Yuan. Spears are way faster. Some civs got movement for their MAA too
12 range is completely fine which I again explained. Its easier to target bombard with 10 springalds than have 20 bombards to kill 10 springalds. What springalds could be is 2 supply instead of 3.
12 range is definitely not fine. When an unit is trading so effectively against units that are supposed to be their counter we have a huge problem.
Even with the adjustment springalds barely tickle bombards while bombards will easly 2 shot them, even culverins are ineffective at dealing with Chinese bombards.
Either anti siege needs to be given more range and a better multiplier against siege or bombards need to have their range reduced!
But it does counter it? Besides springald is castle age unit not imperial age.
You got hard time understanding its way easier to control single unit group to kill one bombard and disengage and re-engage than its to micro multiple bombards and not overshoot against springalds. With springalds the mass is important.
Culverine got same range as chinese bombards and they got 200dmg (royal 240). You need 5 of them to insta kill bombard if they got basic hp increase upgrade. Otherwise 4. While bombards deal 170. This means player needs 3 to insta kill culverine.
China has no access to culverine so their bombard is only imperial age anti siege weaponry. So how China should counter other bombards if the range is reduced to 10 tiles and other civs spam culverines?
And how is that balanced when both have 12 range? That pretty much confirms that Chinese bombards are trading cost effectively against an unit that is supposed to counter it.
There are only 2 civs that can make culverins, and one of them can only make from a landmark.
What you just commented confirms the absurdity of having a 12 range 800+hp bombard which can be used as both anti-siege and siege.
There is nothing on much game that can counter chinese bombard spam.
Big majority of people here agree that Chinese bombards atm are broken and age4 siege in general is a bit over the top.
I don’t believe that we can make worthy arguments in defense of China’s bombards when bombards in general are credited with being overwhelming for all units to deal with by all of the best and the majority of the rest.