Great, that would help. After all, I can’t really create another similar topic. I actually tried posting in both the Bug Report and Discussion sections before, but one of them ended up getting locked.
1 Like
Yeah if we are lucky it could be patch up immediately or we gonna wait 3yrs just like they did in the mounted samurai weapon.
A powerful economy is just a band-aid for real design flaws. I’d rather they nerf the economy a bit in exchange for more polished design.
Actually, I feel that compared to ZXL, the base Chinese civilization is already falling far behind in terms of design, it has so many flaws that could be improved.
For instance, the late-game tax issue could easily be solved by introducing a Ming Dynasty-era civic building.
The Fire Lancer’s uselessness stems purely from a lack of clear positioning. They could have toned down the torch damage but compensated with faster movement speed and greater sight, allowing it to synergize effectively with the Horseman. At the same time, they need to fix the bug where Fire Lancers and Lancers don’t receive the attack speed buff from Spirit Way. Ideally, this should be paired with some sort of upgrade — like automatically triggering a Spirit Way buff when the Fire Lancer charges. This would definitely give the Fire Lancer much broader utility.
As for the Grenadier, my suggestion is to just replace it altogether. That unit might have had a niche in the ZXL system, but for the Chinese civ, it’s neither a clutch performer nor a top-tier powerhouse.
1 Like
I also don’t believe economic balance should prevent us from adjusting the Chinese units.
Units with different stats and costs can act as either a buff or a nerf. I feel we could totally introduce some high-value but low-efficiency units to increase the civ’s playability on large-scale team game maps.
Right now, even the standard Lancer doesn’t benefit from the Spirit Way attack speed buff. By the late game, I honestly have no idea what units I’m even supposed to train.
I also think it would be a great idea to introduce this new crossbowman as a regional unit, perhaps with slightly longer range but at a higher cost. After all, heavy armor is a staple of European civs, and Eastern civs always need crossbowmen to counter them. So, enhancing the crossbowman’s unique characteristics would be an excellent approach.
About the Fire Lancer
I think it deserves some extra bonus when it hits its targets. Both Jin and ZhuXi have many bonuses that cause their units with explosives or gunpowder to inflict debuffs:
-
Heaven Shaking Thunder: Eruptor and Spearman with firelance reduce cavalry attack by 20%.
-
Pli Pao: Traction Trebs and Nest of Bess reduce the attack of buildings that were shot by 20%.
-
Hard Cased Bombs: Grenadier damage reduces melee and range resistance of hit enemy units by 15%.
In the case of China, the Fire Lancer was originally used to kill archers en masse before its nerf, taking advantage of its high area-of-effect attack. They could very well consider giving it its own ability as well. Something like:
“Blinding Flash”*.- The fire lancer’s explosion reduces the attack speed and damage of ranged units hit in the area by 20% for X seconds.
1 Like
The General
Campaign unit, accompanied troops in battle and in some levels, he has some abilities that YueFei had, such as movement speed buff (+15%) or the Zan Ma skill, which increases the attack bonus against cavalry by +20 to all infantry.
Some abilities
1 Like
I really like these ideas. However, I’ve always felt that the current Fire Lancer doesn’t even integrate well enough with some of the basic existing systems.
For example, the Spirit Way attack speed buff simply doesn’t apply to the Fire Lancer or the Knight. On top of that, if you try to use the Fire Lancer to buff the Horsemen, it ends up slowing the whole group down.
So, it just doesn’t fit into the current system at all. This system is far too outdated, and the Devs haven’t really put enough thought into how to adapt it to the current game environment. Simply buffing damage won’t really help.
First of all, thank you to the development team for your continued work on Age of Empires IV. We really appreciate all the updates and the effort you put into the game.
There’s something we’ve brought up before, but it seems it hasn’t been noticed yet. We’d like to kindly ask again if you could consider some historical adjustments for the Chinese civilizations.
For example:
-
The Zhanmadao (horse-chopping saber) was actually a Song dynasty weapon designed to fight against Jin cavalry. It feels strange to see it in the Jin civilization.
-
The Three-Eyed Gun belongs to the Ming dynasty .
-
The bed crossbow (Chuang Nu) was also a Song dynasty weapon.
-
Some of the Jin landmarks were actually built during the Tang or Song dynasties.
Another small wish: the nicely made Chinese general model from the Yue Fei campaign would be a great addition to the main Chinese civilization as a general or hero unit.
We understand game balance is important, and we’re not asking for 100% historical accuracy. But these changes would make the game feel more authentic and respectful to history. It would mean a lot to players who care about this.
Thank you again for your hard work. We really hope you can take another look at these suggestions.
2 Likes
Perhaps renaming the Jin Dynasty would also be a very simple way to calm player sentiments, after all, the design of the Jin Dynasty has a strong northern style typical of various Chinese dynasties throughout history.
-
Rename the “Jin Dynasty” to something like “Northern China”
Reason: The current Jin design heavily borrows from various northern Chinese dynasties. Renaming would be a simple and effective way to avoid historical disputes and soothe player concerns. -
Rename certain unique units and landmarks
-
Iron Pagoda → Beiwei Army (Song heavy cavalry; similar appearance and historically the Jin’s main opponent)
-
Meng’an Mouke Fortress → Juyong Pass (a famous and historically significant pass in northern China)
Reason for the second change: In history, Meng’an and Mouke were a military-administrative system (roughly “thousand-household” and “hundred-household” units), not the name of any specific fortress. Renaming it to Juyong Pass eliminates historical awkwardness while keeping gameplay unchanged.
-
All these changes require only text and name adjustments, no balance impact. They would greatly improve historical authenticity for players who care about such details. We hope the dev team will consider them.
1 Like
Besides, we already have new weapon models in the game.
We could easily take the Zhanma Swordsman, equip it with that long-handled battle axe, and use it as a new unit to replace the Ming Grenadier, which currently makes absolutely no sense.
I really like this approach too, but there’s an awkward issue: they’ve already implemented the Jin Dynasty Mastery.
Honestly, I haven’t found a great workaround yet. Keeping the original name would just turn it into a bizarre mishmash. On the other hand, if we change the name, how do we handle the Mastery description?
Great, they actually fixed that. It shows that at least they’re paying attention to these issues.
I just hope they can dedicate more effort to fixing other widespread bugs. I literally listed a bunch of them in another topic, and some have been around for ages.
For example, there’s a bug where all Archers’ weapons visually turn into longbows when attacking buildings after researching Incendiary Arrows. That bug has been in the game for nearly a year now.
1 Like