# I open the debate, make your tier list **URL:** \ **Category:** III - Discussion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303 "2023-12-06T22:01:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EliteRiflemann](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/eliteriflemann/32/134254_2.png) [@EliteRiflemann](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/EliteRiflemann)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/1 "2023-12-06T22:01:56Z")
> **[Create a Age of Empires III Civilizations Maker (with DLC) Tier List](https://tiermaker.com/create/age-of-empires-iii-civilizations-tier-list-maker-with-dlc-1132134)** > > The civilizations in Age of Empires III, but i add civilizations of the DLC Simply clarify below if it is for 1v1, teams, treaty or whatever you want. ---
**Author:** ![SealingEar046](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/sealingear046/32/136945_2.png) [@SealingEar046](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SealingEar046)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/2 "2023-12-06T22:31:29Z")
Ok: Treaty 30 minutes, against more than 1 AI, sometimes with an ally human or AI ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/1/2/1202bb4a62ed32c16dd865563e4339954d1822cf.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/assertivewall20/32/102618_2.png) [@AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AssertiveWall20)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/3 "2023-12-06T22:38:18Z")
How well my AI mod plays each civ on island maps: ![Untitled](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/e/4e81d86c8ddae751372929329baf7214c51d06a4.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![SealingEar046](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/sealingear046/32/136945_2.png) [@SealingEar046](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SealingEar046)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/4 "2023-12-06T23:16:06Z")
I have to ask you, why does Mexico play better than USA on water, if they have the same boats? ---
**Author:** ![AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/assertivewall20/32/102618_2.png) [@AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AssertiveWall20)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/5 "2023-12-06T23:23:48Z")
I think it has more to do with the civ’s rush/boom stance and the cards they typically pick. Then there’s Inca off doing their own thing, just dominating with nothing but Chincha rafts. ---
**Author:** ![OperaticShip743](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/operaticship743/32/104612_2.png) [@OperaticShip743](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OperaticShip743)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/6 "2023-12-07T04:35:55Z")
Honestly, I couldn’t make a list of these. I think that the balance in general is fine, but as always there are civilizations that are too strong or too weak in specific things. (a shipment, a unit, a build order, etc.) If I made a list like this it would imply that the first civilization would easily defeat the last one on the list, but I don’t think that is the case. I personally wouldn’t put any in C or D. (At least in supremacy). * * * I would like to make a tier list of minor fractions. ---
**Author:** ![LevitexIslam](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/levitexislam/32/68566_2.png) [@LevitexIslam](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/LevitexIslam)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/7 "2023-12-07T19:33:19Z")
1v1 Supremacy: ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/e/0/e00a01835c494d7d5c537612573311a2f61b9c73.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Moonshadow7475](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Moonshadow7475)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/8 "2023-12-07T22:02:32Z")
I’d switch ethiOPia with Malta. Malta isn’t really that bad, assuming the xbow card gets fixed. ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 4:49am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/9 "2023-12-08T04:49:34Z")
![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/2/0/204720d824fac6ab3a092fb46ba3941e3c32ff8a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![NikolieZeppilen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/nikoliezeppilen/32/65016_2.png) [@NikolieZeppilen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/NikolieZeppilen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/10 "2023-12-08T10:53:29Z")
Hard to make a list But here is the data for the middle 50% of games in 1v1 ranked this patch (1000-1400 elo). ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/9/49da76262511af4147345b0e571f5c8e757b63a0.png) The scoring system is a little arbitrary as what is a good match up (\>58% win rate) and bad match up (\<42% win rate) creates these discrete cut offs. Also how much weight to the score the good and match ups should have. Regardless Malta and Ethiopia need some love, or at least some more people playing them to find new strats. ---
**Author:** ![NikolieZeppilen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/nikoliezeppilen/32/65016_2.png) [@NikolieZeppilen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/NikolieZeppilen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/11 "2023-12-08T10:57:51Z")
1v1 ranked 1000-1400 elo, this patch ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/f/d/fda3dfad275a3d1e4918d2078dd7d18b06c4fe09.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![NikolieZeppilen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/nikoliezeppilen/32/65016_2.png) [@NikolieZeppilen](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/NikolieZeppilen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/12 "2023-12-08T11:05:58Z")
For those Interested. 1400+ elo (top 20-25% of games played) this patch ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/d/9/d9129ffe8101d24866df953f835aefe0ff67665a.png) and \<1000 elo (bottom 30-25% of games played) this patch ![image](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/0/00fea13fc51c77cb4113f7804bbf149ac9922eaf.png) Some match ups still havnt been played this patch so some gaps in the charts. Need more data. Get out there and play. ---
**Author:** ![KEVINITALIEN670](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kevinitalien670/32/78595_2.png) [@KEVINITALIEN670](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KEVINITALIEN670)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/13 "2023-12-08T12:45:23Z")
![capture](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/c/7/c74f3351fb617b150380c7c57d18c8ef02094f4b.png) 1v1 sup ---
**Author:** ![platypus\_slayer1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/platypus_slayer1/32/135063_2.png) [@platypus\_slayer1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/platypus_slayer1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/15 "2023-12-08T18:56:53Z")
![my-image (4)](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/6/5/65e174a1936a3b0ddeaab11ba039c7b8cb878f9d.png) all these are too serious, here is the spiciest tier list i can make (please check the tier qualifications before @ me) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/hamletlopez/32/155365_2.png) [@hamletlopez](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/hamletlopez)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/17 "2023-12-09T21:15:44Z")
Ottos have always oscillated between the two top ladders, for you they are at the bottom? Also, what is Mexico doing on top if the thing got nerfed to the ground and it is at best mid tier. That is really a joke. ---
**Author:** ![AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/assertivewall20/32/102618_2.png) [@AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AssertiveWall20)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/18 "2023-12-09T22:38:30Z")
> [@hamletlopez](#): > > That is really a joke. Take a look at the categories, you might be right. ---
**Author:** ![OperaticShip743](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/operaticship743/32/104612_2.png) [@OperaticShip743](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OperaticShip743)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/19 "2023-12-09T23:13:12Z")
At least with Inca, even the AI seems to agree that it is at a good level. Is it broken or is it just a strong civilization? What do you think is broken (if it is)? ---
**Author:** ![platypus\_slayer1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/platypus_slayer1/32/135063_2.png) [@platypus\_slayer1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/platypus_slayer1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/20 "2023-12-10T03:19:51Z")
Did you actually check the qualifications of the tiers before @ me? I even in my summary asked for such. try reading it again mate, with a more humorous slant in mind 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/assertivewall20/32/102618_2.png) [@AssertiveWall20](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AssertiveWall20)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/21 "2023-12-10T15:56:17Z")
When it comes to the AI on water, I think it’s because the Chincha rafts are in a really good sweet spot between canoes and stronger ships, so they wind up both being able to spam them and also being able to hold their own vs bigger boats and towers. The numbers may just be off for the other canoe civs, though, since from what I understand canoe civs are supposed to be stronger on water. ---
**Author:** ![FoggierWizard41](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/foggierwizard41/32/135766_2.png) [@FoggierWizard41](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/FoggierWizard41)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303/22 "2023-12-10T19:24:48Z")
1v1 Supremacy ![tier list](https://forums.ageofempires.com/uploads/default/original/3X/9/f/9fc8acb84d737588a0a313acd00b6232a7e1adcb.png) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/i-open-the-debate-make-your-tier-list/245303.md?page=2)