Thing is though, the berry bonus can be recycled for another civ. Nerfing the HP bonus will make it inconsistent, when the devs have been trying to keep things this way (see viking inf HP). We are at a stage where the possible bonuses quite frankly (pun not intended lol) are running out. And I’d rather have the berry one on a civ that actually needs it, be it DLC or not, rather than franks, who don’t need it.
Their winrate will drop from 54% to 50%. How is that bad? The berry bonus isn’t insignificant, but it’s not that great either. Used to be broken, now it’s half a vil on berries, the slowest gathered resource.
Also your suggestions are bad. You can’t take away halberdier from them without making throwing axes counter cavalry, and their lategame isn’t great to begin with, all the nerfs you proposed only affect lategame.
In fact, franks besides the paladins have one of the worst lategames- no hussar, no skirms, no SO, no arb etc.
It’s their early game that needs a nerf, not late.
literally the only one they had before, while they were bottom tier, that i mentioned is free farms.
Chivalry was introduced alongside the berry bonus, and its clear that the former is what drastically improved their viability and not the latter.
I’m all for nerfing franks. I just think outright removal of berries is not the way. I’d rather hit their scouts. The same stats shows that franks strength is early mid game.
Nerfing berries would hurt and I think it would hurt too much. Look what happened to Persians with removing dark age tc bonus.
Oh? i guess pikes doesn’t counter cav
someone should tell that to every civ that doesn’t have halberds tech, like Vikings who used to be severely handicapped by that fact until they buffed berserks vs. cav.
since my suggestions are so bad, yet a nerf is clearly needed based on data, why don’t you have a go at it since you know exactly how to balance them then?
i fundamentally disagree, Franks are really strong late game, in fact that is arguably where they shine the most.
Uhh Franks DO have Skirms (Elite) and who needs Siege Onagers and Hussars when you’ve got OP paladins with basically the same radius of vision and BBCs?
the fact they don’t have arbalests is fine since they get hand cannons to compensate for the lack thereof.
You mean the vikings who have an insane economy and can out produce everyone, thus having a numbers advantage, while also having an hp advantage, and also having chieftains?
Nope. Vikings have 2 bonuses for their pikes, aztecs do too.
Literally 30% winrate. Everyone knows they are perhaps the worst civ once gold runs out, alongside malians, which had this addressed in the last patch.
Without bracer and armor? Sure they do lmao.
Because gold doesn’t last forever, and the game is primarily balanced around 1v1, not TG, even though it’s taken into consideration.
IDK if that’s a good argument here. Persians had that for like one patch and then they returned to their original balance. Persians are in a good spot balance wise.
Also saying that the whole power of Franks comes from their berry bonus is naive in my opinion. It was reduced a couple of patches ago and their play and win rate didn’t change at all. Obviously the berries are irrelevant and only make their ealry game a little bit smoother.
