For me it’s simple: does it have scummy mechanics? Then it’s not me, it’s them! I don’t think we’re getting old, they just found a way to milk stupid people. That means they can now neglect good games, because the people who are able to appreciate them are in the minority. In my country they’ve done a statistic this year and the casinos made more money than all the hotels in the country combined. Does that mean vacations are overrated? No, it just means people are stupid. Same goes for gaming, we need to start finding smart people who make games and have other values than just money.
yep theres a reaosn why gatekeeping those ones was important and the people are the sc and wc3 crowd which they come from and the streamers shiller which the most relevant ones comes from those communittoes.
Is it possible that we’re kind of zeroing in on the collective fear in gaming? The monetization of passion, the reduction of intrigue, basically just the commoditization of video games? We engage as a fanbase that enjoys, or does not enjoy, whatever it is we play. That engagement has been used to turn a profit, but Nexon isn’t some kind of unknowable monster.
They are a massive entity that develops and also publishes many titles. They started with MMOs, things like: Dungeon Fighter, Maple Story, and Mabinogi. They have a history of making games designed to be interacted with across community spaces. Their history is filled with titles that were released under a kind of ‘freemium’ model, but their focus with their games was multiplayer interactions.
There’s going to be an attempt to turn a profit on the initial investment in acquiring the rights to develop for it. There’s already an established brand with Starcraft. What’s likely coming from a future title associated with it is something that pits players against each other in a competitive strategy space. That could be reduced to something akin to Mechabellum, where the strategy elements are automated to make it easier to play on a mobile platform.
I brought it up because you guys were mentioning that Starcraft appears to be dwindling into non-existence, and the Blizzard lineup doesn’t have a defined future for past titles (the Warcraft MMO is obviously not what you were referring to). It’s connected rather tenuously with AoE because of their relationship with the Microsoft conglomerate.
What it doesn’t compare to AoE with is the passion that is present in development. I know some see the expansions that they’ve introduced to AoE IV as being insufficient, and the patching process to be rather slow. But I think if you compare that to other titles in the RTS space you’ll find that World’s Edge and their associated studios put in a lot of work with minimal financial compensation from the fan-base. We don’t have a micro-transaction system, outside of playable factions and single-player modules the game is fully accessible through a one time purchase.
On gatekeeping, I think that 90% of what it accomplishes is negative community relations between opposing parties. My main position, and the reason I believe many have thought I was against them, is that it’s ultimately out of our hands as community members with where they take the series. I’m just trying to approach this realistically. I also don’t want to be disappointed, and rather than trying to see people as dumb or gullible, I would rather take a look at my standards and beliefs. It’s possible to be about not being part of the group that they are appealing to. Just like it’s possible that they are trying to milk stupid people. (Though, I think that’s a very cynical evaluation)
I would prefer to believe that the collective fear of AoE 4 dying is more because of unmet expectations, rather than a belief in the idea that we are being fleeced and taken advantage of. I have a hard time seeing that be the case when I have so many things to enjoy about this game, it feels like the devs do too (to me, at least).
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I mostly agree although both can be true. As is often stressed here, developers, producers and executives have different roles. Those who have honed their skill in developing games are likely to engage in develop something they are proud of. Producers have to tangle with the budget, restrictions and aims of the project, contending with its herd of managers while coordinating with other producers doing the same. Executives are mostly the ones with a big picture mindset that are responsible for the dissatisfaction in gaming you’ve commented on above–how one game relates to another, and overall trends seen in competitors.
All three could be criticized independently, and they are. You can’t, however, criticize them all for the same thing, as they are not some cabal collectively scheming to ruin your Tuesday evening or whatever. But, you can criticize developers for decision making in relation to balance, or producers in regards to communication and management and of course executives for their unchecked greed.
You’re not analyzing, you’re catastrophizing. AoE4 sitting at 9–11k concurrents four years post-launch isn’t a “death sentence,” it’s success by RTS standards. Most modern RTS titles don’t even crack relevance six months after release. The fact that it still spikes with every DLC proves engagement is alive and well.
Your “variants are cheap content” take is shallow. Full civs aren’t automatically better — they’re harder to balance and fragment the meta. Variants provide asymmetry, flavor, and replayability without bloating the system. That isn’t laziness, that’s efficiency.
And your profit obsession misses the entire point. Microsoft isn’t treating AoE4 like a boxed product; it’s part of an ecosystem. They already poured absurd resources into the launch campaign alone, which was far more expensive to produce than the average RTS offering. That wasn’t “cheap filler,” it was a deliberate investment to legitimize AoE4 as a flagship. From there, sustaining the game with streamlined content makes sense — they front-loaded the cost to establish credibility.
If AoE4 is “dead,” explain why it’s outlasting nearly every RTS in the last decade. StarCraft II, the supposed gold standard, was abandoned because Blizzard lacked an ecosystem plan. Microsoft has one, and AoE4 is executing it.
You can dress it up as doomposting all you want, but the reality is simple — thousands log in daily, new expansions keep dropping, and the franchise is healthier than any RTS not named Age of Empires II. The only thing dead here is your argument.
Ecosystem plan?
What is that supposed to mean?
It’s big enough that it should be fine for a while.
I think the problem with the RTS genre is it’s complex to learn which leads to a huge gap between the worst player and the best player and a large gap between a new player and someone with a few months or years of experience.
The future of RTS is in making it more simplistic and casual friendly which I know is not what a more dedicated group like forum users wants to hear but that’s where the RTS genre needs to go if the goal is a larger playerbase.
I’m reminded of a really old RTS called R.U.S.E. and the trailer made for it dating to 2009. It teased a touch screen table and two men playing each other on the table with simple touch commands. And sure, it’s a fake trailer for a game but that video got me a little hyped for the game (it turned out to be nothing like the trailer, it was okay but nothing like the trailer). And I mention it to point out that’s probably what a more casual player wants. A simple game to sit down and play where you don’t need to micro and macro but where you can make a series of decisions and compete against someone else making a series of decisions.
I also think RTS is at a disadvantage because people do like team video games just like they enjoy team sports.
You’ve lost me big time with this paragraph, so I couldn’t read further. Variants are the ones that bloat, and given how asymmetrically they’re designing them currently, they don’t do much for balance or knowledge burden either. What original civs bring to the table is art, theme and flavor, especially art, which is incredibly important to a video game. Variants are just an excuse to cut costs, and will affect the quality of the game in the long run. You’ll have many more “Vikings with Greek architecture and language” problems as they pile on. AoE4 is a good game, and it doesn’t deserve this treatment just because it doesn’t bring in the dumb money of AoE Mobile.
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Let’s not forget that AoE 4 in its first year was struggling a lot. It’s launch price ($60) for what it offered was too high, ranked didn’t came until 6 months after release and the release meta was pleagued by Springald wars.
This is AoE 4 on Steam until shortly after the release of Sultan’s Ascend:
Around August 2022 they lowered the price iirc.
I wouldn’t say AoE 4 is dead but it was and partly still is below its potential.
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AoE4 is doing better than most RTS games today, but the latter half of your quote is what is frustrating. The potential has always been there, everyone sees it. Hence, the frustration when it isn’t being followed up.
I don’t have many expectations anymore but I strongly urge everyone in the community insist they add a proper in-game editor and better mod support before support is fully delegated to maintenance only. This might be the most important element that could allow the passionate members of our community to express themselves in addition to creating a self sustained cycle of single-player content in regards to creation and play. Creating campaigns, unique game modes, unique UI or entirely new civilizations with imported user created models.
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The game desperately needs more communication from the devs and a yearly roadmap so people have something to look forward to and also to manage expectations.
Posting some vague words every time there’s a patch (we have big plans, can’t wait to show the new DLC, etc) inevitably leads to disappointment because people make up their own mind on what to expect.
For the new DLC most people were waiting for at least a couple new unique civs and we only got variants.
Now again there’s uncertainty. Will we ever get new unique civs? Only variants from now on? Will there even be a new DLC is this the last one? Nobody knows because noone from World’s Edge is talking.
The marketing for AOE4 has been rather abysmal from the start TBH. Such a wasted opportunity.
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They told us there would be 2 expansions this year, they said there would be new game modes, they said there would be variant civs.
They delivered exactly that and did not promise anything more. I personally hoped there would be a new civ as well, but if I had EXPECTED that… well would be on me.
When they gave us that “roadmap”, what exactly was in those expansions would have still been very much in flux.
Now imagine the outrage if they had been more specific in their roadmap and didn’t meet it exactly.
Every single time something gets added to the game some of the people here start assuming this.
They never detailed what would be on the DLC’s. For the newest one they promised a new game mode a few weeks before they announced it. That’s not a roadmap. That’s teasing. Here’s what a proper roadmap looks like for a successful game
Well if they can’t make a roadmap and stick to it then the game is in bigger trouble than we think.
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This is a good example of a properly done Roadmap
By the other hand Warhammer 40k Space Marine II is a great game!
Withholding information is just simple messaging. If I have something good to tell you, I tell you. If I don’t, I protect myself by withholding it for as long as possible.
Of course, this can’t be too obvious, so they deal this card when it comes to good messaging too. If they have actual civilizations that they want to reveal, they will withhold that information too so we’re always guessing.
This worked when we knew what to expect. Now, we don’t, because for 2 years they’ve failed to deliver the most demanded type of DLC. That lost in trust means there is no point in playing games with them anymore, in other words; I always expect the worst now. Because, being hopeful really has not done anything for me in regards to AoE4’s development.
I get it. Developers aren’t magicians nor are companies omnipotent. But, I think there does exist a universe where you can project a good image despite your low efforts. It just happens that their strategy of communication is the most corporate soul sucking inflammatory method ever.
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I think we’re getting a little hung up on the concept of failure and unmet expectations here.
They made a commitment that they kept. People who were given no indication that they would receive something formed an expectation based off of their preferences and desires. Maybe they got suckered in by rumors.
They didn’t fail anyone by not delivering what some people expected, but were never promised or offered. They delivered exactly what they advertised.
I fail to see how the situation with the fanbase that feels underwhelmed would change if they enhanced their communication. The ultimate issue is that whatever it is they produce is either enough or not enough, and some people are always going to see that as something done for/against them personally.
It’s also hard to see people expecting the worst, or seeing this as a failure to uphold their commitments as developers. There’s a viking faction, which was highly requested. There’s a significant amount of non-european focus in the civs available with the DLC, again, highly requested. They added more single-player content that allows for more replay ability than any campaign module. Just because they didn’t check every box that every person had doesn’t mean that they didn’t cater the direction of development to crowd feedback.
Not only that, they are openly communicative when they are speaking to people. There’s been communications on their official Discord, they’ve been releasing pieces of information roughly every 3 months, and to top it off they do have a roadmap in February. If that wasn’t enough, there’s an events calendar to detail every upcoming tournament.
For what it’s worth, the civ pages being released all on the same day as the announcement is a huge improvement. We’d normally be waiting up until 1 or 2 weeks before launch for that kind of data drop.
There seems to be a serious mix-up with the idea that being able to see the situation plainly, and allowing what exists to be all that is, is somehow sycophancy. This angered response at not having gotten exactly what was desired is quite literally entitlement. A belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. The response from some has been to be rude, demanding, contemptuous, or openly resentful (far more than just disappointed), and is exactly how an entitled person responds to being “wronged”.
It seems Mayorcete seen my thread, lol
It’s basically what i said in this thread.
Mayorcete has a YouTube Channel work more than 300k subscirbers.
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