I understand your point, but keep in mind that 1.2x is only a 20% damage boost.
With the introduction of Sweden, they actually had a bonus vs all cavalry. That was rightfully nerfed, and Caros continued to be nerfed over and over. What I’ve noticed now is that in team games you just go pikes and/or Jaegers as your main units. Both of those are too good at the moment (Jaegers at 80c 80w beat a lot of things). My suggestion, therefore, assumes a nerf to Swedish Jaegers and Swedish guard pikes.
I think Caros have been nerfed enough (and the Swedish economy has been nerfed enough) that returning part of their original function wouldn’t be out of line. Having said that, I could see going with 1.10x or 1.15x. I would keep Platoon Fire as is. It shouldn’t do anything with the light cavalry multiplier (at one point it did).
Hmm, maybe. I don’t play much Sweden, but it just feels like if Swe plays Caro they seem kinda underwhelming (team games). Though that could be a skill imbalance.
Easy secret: The trample attack for most units has a lot less damage per hit and slower RoF but Hakka get almost the same dmg and can reduce the RoF to 1.5 like the normal attack.
Caros suck in age 2. They cost 65f and 40c for a unit that under preforms a standard musketeer (in small groups they under preform vs cavalry, and only really trade well in melee against infantry, which isn’t always viable). That does mean it takes time for them to pay you back. Usually you have to spend some time in age 2, so you’re effectively paying more than they’re worth, putting your efficiency kinda into the negatives if you trade units (killing 1 musk and losing 1 caro is a bad trade).
After you spend on Snaplock (equal to about 1k res invested) they start to pay back from an efficiency standpoint by beating Musketeers, but this takes time. You basically have to pay back the debt before you start to take a lead. Then you pay another 1k for Platoon Fire.
Importantly though, by investing so much into Caros it’s difficult to put a lot into other units. Jaegers kinda need at least one card (10 Jaegers for 900c and a shipment or the church tech), lots of food and wood for leather cannons (and don’t forget the card for Infantry Guns), or coin and wood for Falcs.
Meanwhile your opponents have a skirm/goon or skirm/musk or skirm/huss comp which preforms fine even without many cards. Those freed up cards can now go to more units, eco ups, or military ups.
By the time your caros are running at full in a team game, the armies are a bit large for charges, and your opponent probably has skirm/goon which counter your caros who still haven’t paid for themselves.
I think the issue Caros have atm is that the price tag assumes cards not yet sent. They aren’t cost effective until after at least Snaplock, and therefore kinda hurt you. After you finally get them rolling they become one of the best musks in the game, but you’re still behind.
I think Sweden is in an awkward spot. Their unit roster has gaps, which are intended to be filled with Mercs. That didn’t work at release because Caro were super op, and the eco was insane to the point that you could send an almost unending stream of them into the enemy base. It was a mono comp without need to consider counters.
More recently, I think Caros aren’t really cost effective (at least until you’re in age 3 and have sent minimum 1 card). They only appear that way due to a large eco. This leads to the new heavy Jaeger play, where you get discount Jaegers and can either add other Mercs or Pikemen which only cost 30f/w in age 4.
I think part of this is design flaw, Caros force significant investment and so do mercs. It’s not exactly easy to do both and a 10 Jaeger pop won’t usually win you the game like it can in 1v1. You kinda have to pick one.
Thinking about it, I’m not really sure how I’d fix all this without a major rework of the civ. Some of the design elements just don’t really function well unfortunately. Imo it feels a lot like bandages over bandages over bandages in order not to address the core issues.
Well, at 80c and 80w they kinda over preform in age 3 and 4. Add to that a strong eco and Sweden can kinda spam them with fairly little effort. You’re basically paying 40w and 40c per skirm (Jaegers are basically 2 skirms stat wise). That’s pretty good.
no doubt on that even tho they should beat the standard musk due to the RoF.
You can always start can and switch to them later - with a coordinated team atleast.
which you wouldn’t really do in team games anyway when you can just concentrate on buffing one of your units.
The spot for heavy infantry in teams is pretty weird later on but I’d rather have carded caro over almost any other musketeer but I’d agree that other units will get more use.
Why would you send that in team games, when you can just train them and send something else like the church card or wood to pay for it?
Most skirms beat them at pop efficiency and the top skirms will also beat them in terms of cost efficiency most of the game. Early age3 if you use your free advanced arsenal for techs they are gonna be really good but once it goes later I’d rather have Volts, Vigilante or carded Neftenyas.The only big advantage is not needing many cards but when you’re free to stack all upgrade cards on a unit in team that doesn’t matter a whole lot.
I don’t play a lot of Sweden anymore. I’m mostly looking at it from the outside. At the moment though, Caros just don’t really phase me. I’m generally less nervous about Caro Swe than Jaeger or Pike Swe at this point.
Having said that, maybe it’s a civ thing. I mostly play Portuguese, Russians, and Dutch.
Jaeger Swe is nasty though. I think you underestimate them. 40-50 Jaegers are nasty and the age 4 upgrade only costs a card. Then Imp only costs aging up. They’re really cheap at 80w/80c.
As I said the cheap way to upgrade is the biggest advantage but they are still not always worth the res compared to certain other skirm units - most likely including dutch skirms and 80-100 skirms should beat the 40-50 Jäger.
That being said I’d agree that some other builds are simply better than caro but they are still strong and sweden just has a lot of ways to get busted in teams.
Unless we are talking treaty mode, I will compare according to resource in other modes.
80w 80c for a jaeger is just too cheap, especially torps gather trees and golds effectively.