Idea for Holland in 1vs1

The Dutch are a civ. pretty strong, but it takes a long time to be competitive.
I suggest that instead of having 5 banks at the beginning of the game, that these give it to you as you age like the Portuguese do with urban centers, starting with a bank detachment in the first age until reaching fifth where you will have the 5 banks you started with.

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At least an age up politician that gives a bank would be nice.

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I agree. Early game I find myself to be defensive as building banks cost 700 resources, which is a high investment in eco to give them 4 vills equivalent.

Each age up giving a bank isn’t balanced, maybe an age up politician giving a bank wagon would be ideal, possibly in the 3 age. They do have Dutch East India company card to reduce the cost to allow earlier banks and save resources but I think it should be in the first age.

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I was having an ok time going for dutch rush by sending in 3 hussars to raid, and using advanced market to balance resources, but it was knife edge play as if the raid failed my eco would end up to far behind

Is the advanced market a useful card? would like to know more about it

You may benefit from the 3 hussars if you can idle his vils, but against a good player might not be too useful. And considering if you send that ahead of 700w might delay your eco.

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Exactly, good against someone with Elo below 1000, not so much anyone else. Since Dutch get the Envoy they can be really good at scouting, so can get know the enemies position really easily.

Advanced market is useful and it isnt. Like i was using it as the first card, so ignoring 3 villagers. Initially i just mined gold and traded it for food to age, but even with dutch fast mining (0.69/s compared to 0.6/s) it doesnt beat hunts 0.84/s. I changed my build to hunt/mine to age up 12 vill, going 400 wood, and trading gold for wood to get a bank by age up. But i could do the same with sending 300 wood as first shipment instead of advanced market. So idk really. It can be useful to balance eco since your always getting gold from the banks but its probably a bit slow.

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I think people should try playing more with Mercenaries, as Dutch.

Dutch have a tiny economy, but are very good at getting Gold, so you can actually afford a lot of Mercs.
I have been having some success with it, specially because people refuse to use Spies.

Bank wagon with every age up could be broken. And you can’t compare that to Ports getting TC because Ports does not have any vill shipments and it is hard to maintain vill production in both the TCs, especially in age 2. A bank just works completely different and is more expensive than a TC.

And even if there is a bank wagon age up to 3 (I think it is a great change), aging with it might be risky because Dutch has to go with the fast age up most of the time and cannot stay in age 2 longer after getting 3 or 4 banks up.

I think maybe making banks cheaper by 10% with every age up (from age 3) could probably be a way to go. And also 7 ruyters is a ■■■■ card, must be changed to 8 ruyters.

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This is a terrible idea. Dutch are already so strong and you want to give them a 4 vill trickle for free.

The Logistician actually made the dutch more viable in 1vs1
3vils > logistician > chop for a market in transition> 700w > 700f > bank wagon. The 700f shipment can be pushed by a military unit shipment

Dutch actually do not benefit much from Logistician.
100 more Food is not worth what you get, and Dutch need to Age Up fast, unlike other civs that can get a decent army in Colonial, and use a Military Wagon as a politician bonus.

Dutch should just race to Age 3, get all their 50 Vills, and go Ruyter + Skirms, or go for Mercenaries (which is what I do) with mass Plantations when you hit Industrial, and have all your Banks.

Semi FF works perfectly in team games but depends in 1vs1 where depending on the civ you will not get an opportunity to age up.

The build is Hazza’s and it allows you to fight in colonial and put massive preasure on opponents.

Giving a bank wagon doesn’t seem to be such a good change. However, it is clear that they must give positive rewards when they overcame the initial attack and built all the banks quickly.

Most Dutch players enter 3ages without having 5 banks. Even if five banks give you infinite gold, if some settlers don’t collect coins, the Dutch will quickly become poor due to the vast expenditure of gold. And because they have a settler limit of 50, the TC boom isn’t that efficient either. Their economic core is the bank, so a noticeable change in the bank will work for them.

The best thing is that the bank’s cost make lower. They need 350f 350w to have a single bank. It is more efficient to get 7 Settlers for that cost. If the bank’s cost is 300f 300w, Dutch will be able to get an additional market or house even if it doesn’t get the Wood treasure when it gets 400w in 2age, which will greatly improve the Dutch start. The second is that the bank’s coin generation rate increases. coin generated by the bank is 2.75, which produces the same coin that 5 settlers did once the market coin upgrade. However, the total price of the bank is 700, so this is more absurd than generating resources at home. I don’t think it will be a big problem even if they create 3 or so resources. That’s about 6 settlers who haven’t upgraded.

Even if only one of the two improves, the Dutch economy will be much stronger.

One idea would be to make the east india company a Age I card.

The reward is not big to give up 3 settlers to receive that card. That card must get a more meaningful buff. Even if receiving the card lowers the cost of the bank, the Netherlands must collect resources and build a bank himself. That’s why that card isn’t efficient.

I agree that dutch needs a buff to their early game as the civ struggles a lot, specially cuz of 700 ressources bank.
Giving a bank for each age up is an interesting idea, but that might make the civ a bit too op though.
Also on EP they experimented making banks cheaper which resulted on the civ dominating all tourney games.
They could give an extra 50w crate for dutch and see how it hoes from there as that is minus 50w you have to chop in transition to age 2 and it can make a difference since wood gathering rate is so slow.
They could also increase bonus that dutch vills have when gathering coin.

Nope; its not.
As dutch you want to send wood crates or the bank wagon to get as many banks as you can as well as infrastructure such as military buildings, houses, etc
Advanced market will only slow you down a lot and you will be a whole shipment behind.

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If it’s too broken, take out a bank with every age.

The price of the banks could be lowered to 300f, 300w and that the Dutch company letter orient. it only improves your resistance.

He could also be given a letter that allows him to take out ruyter at age 2 like the Swedes and Portuguese, or French riflemen (like the Swedes), this would be more efficient than the 8 pikemen.

One single bank is powerful enough and costs a lot of resources, so any attempt to give the Dutch additional banks might be a dangerous idea, especially in the early game. On the other hand, because there is no “half-bank”, it is very hard to give them a moderate economic peak.

Giving them one bank wagon for each age up is a little too radical. What about one bank wagon for all age 2 politicians?

Meanwhile, because Dutch early game is already quite weak, people were even overlooking the fact that 50 vils + 7/8 banks is much worse than 99 vils/80 courers. They even need 3 cards + 1 tech (with penalties) to reach maximum banks.
(Edit: removed the comparison with 75 vils + 20 shrines because Japanese do not have factories)

Age 2 ruyter would be a bit too op.
I honestly would like dutch banks to be cheaper as it would make the civ more competitive on 1v1.
The problem with it is that it could make the civ a bit too strong on teams.

I do not think it is so op, since the ruyter would be less strong, since it would not have the veteran improvement