Idea to make the Celts more historically accurate

[Gaudio3342]

@UpmostRook9474

Using Goths to represent Anglo-Saxons is obviously not because Britons have not been introduced yet.

But that’s only in Hastings tho. Also ###### in the York scenario is represented by Goths, but at the same time Mercia and East Anglia are Britons.
In Vinlandsaga, which takes places 66 years before Hastings, Britons (the player) are represented by Britons (the civ).
And there’s also the ES Saxon Revolt hidden scenario, where the opposite happens. The Britons civ is used to represent peoples of modern day Germany and the Netherlands.

Campaings often take lots of licenses in terms of assigning civs to the historical factions in order to provide a better gameplay experience. The 6th Attila scenario and Sforza campaign (where Venice is represented by the Portuguese civ) immediately come to mind.

Using Goths instead of Britons for the Hastings scenario may just come down to the ES campaign designers trying to avoid the player fighting against 12 range archer shooting from a hyper-defended fortress in an island. Just a theory, who knows.

[TommoChocolate]

@UpmostRook9474

Perhaps these are unnecessary, but we can probably still explore other ways to tweak Goths if we want them to be a more competent umbrella

Perhaps, but I don’t think this is a good reason to change Goths really. I agree your suggestions would bring them probably as close as possible to Anglo-Saxons though.

@Gaudio3342

But that’s only in Hastings tho. Also ###### in the York scenario is represented by Goths, but at the same time Mercia and East Anglia are Britons.

I guess this was mostly done for variety (although there are lots of Celts in that scenario). If there are reasons to the choices, I think that Mercia are Britons because of their historical alliance (long broken at this point) with the Welsh, Northumbria are Celts because of the influence of Irish Christianity there, and the West Saxons are Goths because they had Huskarls (later than this). I don’t know about East Anglia though.

@Gaudio3342

In Vinlandsaga, which takes places 66 years before Hastings, Britons (the player) are represented by Britons (the civ).

This one is a bit odd, because that’s presumably meant to be Scotland, so I’d expect Celts. But from the point of view of gameplay in that scenario, this would make no difference.

@Gaudio3342

Using Goths instead of Britons for the Hastings scenario may just come down to the ES campaign designers trying to avoid the player fighting against 12 range archer shooting from a hyper-defended fortress in an island. Just a theory, who knows.

I assume it was done to give them Huskarls, since Hastings is the most well-known battle to involve them.

@Gaudio3342

I just finished watching Seven Kings Must Die and I’m now 100% sure both Anglo-Saxons and English should be considered as covered as Britons.

Agreed – in a standard game, Anglo-Saxons are Dark and Feudal Age Britons. In a campaign, Anglo-Saxons are whatever seems like the best fit to the designer. In any case, there’s never going to be an official Anglo-Saxon campaign, and custom campaigns don’t have to use standard civs anyway.