Ideas for Buffing Russia

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

I think a lot of people would like Boyars to be reverted. But I think with changes to the game, something else should be done. Cavalry received an universal buff. I think another thing that hurts Russia is the buffs and popularity of ottomans. Russia vs Ottomans has heavily favored Ottomans for a long time and the recent changes only help otto more. Delis delete Stretlets more effectively than Hussars at least until Boyars is in.

Given the buff to hand cavalry, instead of reverting Boyars it should add 10% attack and hitpoints to rusketeers. 10% attack/hp can be removed from Toy Soldiers in age 4 to compensate.

Ruskets would have 135 hitpoints with Boyars, meaning they still get one shot by CM TCs (which I believe is important for balance).

I also think the +2 range for Stretlets from “Stretlet Horde” should be removed. Instead add +1 range to Veteran and Guard Stretlets.

I think the last change should be making the “Sovnya” card in age 3 allow Russian cavalry archers to use melee attack automatically when the target they’re attacking is close enough. Similarly to javelin riders, Hakkas, and other ranged cav that like melee work. I find Sovnya CA to be very fun and unique and having them automatically attack in melee would make sense given how other similar units function and allow the upgrade to be more useful.

I think each of these changes would help Russia to end it’s long run of being considered underpowered. What do you think?

2 Likes
2

no i dont want my cavalry archers atack meele automatically, not by default, that can get me in trouble

3

I wasn’t suggesting that by default. Only making them do it automatically after sending Sovnya (adds +5 melee attack and 1 area of effect on cav archers).

CA have a 4.5 multiplier against hand cav by default. Normally their melee attack is low, but the +5 attack can get them to where they’re better against heavy cav in melee.

4

by deafults mean, taht after sending that card, by deafult the units atack meele when on range, i think that may getm e in trouble when habeldiers are near, iwould like that with sovnya player would have to click if want to attack meele automatic or no

5

You could simply work around that, by giving them a " minimum / maximum " range.
That way they will go meele, when they are 3-4 tiles away from the enemy unit they currently attack. Otherwise will continue fire ranged.

6

I think what you’re describing would only be a minor issue. You need to hit and run against halberdiers anyway, either that or your CA are mostly tanking while other units are taking down the halberdiers.

I think against basically everything other than melee heavy infantry it’s an advantage to have them automatically melee when they get close enough to what they are attacking.

7

This is basically what I was suggesting. Although I wouldn’t make it 3-4 tiles, I’d give them the same melee range as a Swedish Hakkapeliitta or a Javelin rider

8

CA cant tank habielder

9

nah, its not needed, i can doit manually, if it were done automatically, my units would miss some shoots to near cavalry raiding, because 6.75 speed is not enough to give a meele atack
And CA could move towards doppensolder meele or habielder, imagine taht, my CA running towards doppansoldier, no please.
Its ok to atack meele manually never automatic, because i would be in automatically problems, instead of automatic benefits, those benefits i can made them easily manually

what would i accept is giving meele attack automatically when the CA can hit meele, not when still the CA has to run towards the enemy. But anyway i think that just would not be good, that would be needed to be tested

10

I never suggested CA should run towards enemy units to melee while in ranged mode (“Stagger Mode”). Only when they were close enough (ie to attack in melee).

As far as I’m aware Hakkapeliittas in Stagger Mode (where they use ranged attack, but still use melee if an enemy target is close enough) do not automatically run closer to use melee.

In Stagger Mode CA would still shot at targets that are too far away from to hit in melee.

11

for what? cavalry archer doesnt have high atack on meele, please dont, it would be harder to play good using them

12

Following your questions I decided to run some numbers because I wanted to test it to see if I was correct.

What I am going to assume here for the math is a situation in which you have a large number of CA and are intentionally slamming them into enemy units (meaning the front line of them would be using melee while the rows behind them are shooting). If you want to keep your distance there would be no significant difference between CA as they are now and with the change I’m proposing (meaning only when fighting at melee distance matters).

CA vs Heavy Cavalry

III
Ranged: 13 attack +20% (vet) x3 = 46.8 damage per shot.
Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +20% (vet) +5 (Sonyna) x4.5 = 57.6 damage per hit.

IV
Ranged: 13 attack +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) x3 = 72.1 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) x4.5 = 76.6 damage per hit.

V
Ranged: 13 attack +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) x3 = 91.6 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) x4.5 = 91.2 damage per hit.

Most heavy cav have ranged resist so the melee is even better and I’m not counting the AOE on the melee either. This is a significant win for melee

CA vs Goons

III
Ranged: 13 attack +20% (vet) = 15.6 (or 17.5 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

Melee: (After Sonyna): 6.5 +20% (vet) +5 (Sonyna) = 12.8 (or 13.7 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

IV
Ranged: 13 attack +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) = 24.0 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) = 17.0 damage per hit.

V
Ranged: 13 attack +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) = 30.5 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) = 20.2 damage per hit.

Here when the Dragoons 20%RR is taken into account its a tiny win in melee in age 3 before cav combat. I believe fighting at range wins in the other scenarios outlined above, though I didn’t count the AOE and snare matters here as it delays the ability of the goons to run away. I’m going to count this as a loss for the change I suggested.

Of course if you don’t get close enough to melee you’re using range and that will be the main situation here meaning the suggested change doesn’t lose you very much.

CA vs Musketeers

III
Ranged: 13 attack +20% (vet) = 15.6 (or 17.5 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

Melee: (After Sonyna): 6.5 +20% (vet) +5 (Sonyna) = 12.8 (or 13.7 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

IV
Ranged: 13 attack +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) = 24.0 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) = 17.0 damage per hit.

V
Ranged: 13 attack +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) = 30.5 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) = 20.2 damage per hit.

Here fighting at a distance where melee is possible will be bad in most situations, so the change I suggested matters little since you’ll want to avoid getting that close. This will basically apply to all heavy infantry.

CA vs Skirmishers

III
Ranged: 13 attack +20% (vet) = 15.6 (or 17.5 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

Melee: (After Sonyna): 6.5 +20% (vet) +5 (Sonyna) = 12.8 (or 13.7 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

IV
Ranged: 13 attack +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) = 24.0 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) = 17.0 damage per hit.

V
Ranged: 13 attack +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) = 30.5 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) = 20.2 damage per hit.

Fighting Skirms with CA isn’t a great move, but given the 30%RR, melee wins in both age 3 and 4 even without counting the AOE or snare. In age 5 it’s a very small win at range without counting the snare or AOE, it’s likely small enough that melee wins by a tiny margin.

CA vs Artillery

III
Ranged: 13 attack +20% (vet) x2 = 31.2 (or 35.1 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

Melee: (After Sonyna): 6.5 +20% (vet) +5 (Sonyna) x2 = 25.6 (or 27.5 with Cav Combat) damage per shot.

IV
Ranged: 13 attack +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) x2 = 48.1 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +85% (vet +Tatar +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) x2 = 34.0 damage per hit.

V
Ranged: 13 attack +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) x2 = 61.1 damage per shot.

Melee (After Sonyna): 6.5 +135% (vet +Tatar +Imp +Cav Combat and Arsenal up) +5 (Sonyna) x2 = 40.5 damage per hit.

Here if you take into account the 75%RR most artillery have it’s a big win for every CA that gets to use melee.

CA vs CA

This is a win for the CA without Sovnya with the change I’m proposing if you get into melee range.

In all the change I proposed helps against Heavy Cavalry, Artillery and to a lesser extent Skirmishers that have a 30%rr or higher.

Against Heavy Infantry it’s bad if you get into melee, but that’s bad already so staying at range is best.

Against Ranged Cavalry it’s a negative from a damage standpoint in most cases. You’re more likely to snare which is good, but this is a negative overall, I think.

Having stated that, I think Russia benefits more from CA being better against Heavy Cavalry and at snaring enemy units than it hurts them against Goons and Heavy Infantry imo