I’ve been checking the papal unit stats and they are really solid with all the cards and upgrades. However, their problem is that the way to get them is by an expensive shipment in the basilica that interferes with normal shipments, which it sucks. I know that in theory they are not intended to be massed in such a way that they are your main army composition but rather they are complementary units. Bearing the latter in mind, I was thinking that if there was a way to train them in limited numbers in native embassies like the German royal house units it might help, something like a pontifical embassy. However, I wanted to see if you guys had a better idea.
2 Likes
They actually addressed this in the recent patch.
Imperial age the shipments arrive faster. Combine with the card which makes them arrive faster.
Prior to this, shouldn’t gum up your shipments too much.
2 Likes
yes, i know, but it takes 28 secs. When a unit train in 6 secs with all cards and basillica tecnologies.
standing army, mass cavalry should reduce their arrival time, it currently doesn’t but it would be nice.
After all mission fervor helps with the ‘3 priests’ shipment.
2 Likes
I personally believe that the basilica shipments should take different times:
-
like, for papal lancers 60 seconds is balanced, the unit can be crazy good especially when you stack a lot of upgrades on it.
-
for papal guards instead 60 seconds are too much, a standard 45 secs should be enough.
-
for the zouaves they should just increase the number of units shipped to at least 5 or 6.
-
for schiavoni, not being properly a papal unit and more of an anti skirm unit, they should allow them to be trained at lombards when aging up with the mercenary contractor in age 3 (which by the way it could be renamed condottiero).
I’m general, the problem could be solved though the papacy tech at the basilica, the problem is that such tech should come with a downside, as it is the norm for free church techs.
3 Likes
Right now, I think it’s perfectly balanced. The papal units are very powerful and although some have very specific functions, it does not mean that they come with certain special abilities. The mechanics of them working as shipments for me is very good and is very well thought out, I do not think that this system should be changed or speed up the arrival of papal troops, because in most cases, paying the cost of these units does not it’s a problem for Italy, so keeping your spawn times this way is the best way to avoid mobs of death.
When it comes to Italy the easiest (not saying the best here, or in general) source of penalties is the free villager mechanics.
It is flexible enough and could be used as a way to balance things, i.e. the downside for a thing could be ######### the next X technologies from granting free vills to the player.
But it is another mechanics in a civ that already has much more of them compared to core OG AoE III civs…
edit: censored word is
St.
RIP
-ping-
as in: depriving something of some element, removing in.
If I had money to blow I would blow it on buying Microsoft along with this forum, and fire all higher-ups that accepted/came up with the idea of implementing censoring of this kind. I don’t see anyone swearing, there are moderators, and people that might be banned are for much more serious things.
1 Like
The free vill mechanic is nice but far from being that strong.
Italy usually age up with the same or slightly less vills than other civs, their start is balanced only by their higher food start. British and indians free vill bonus is better for comparison.
The strength of Italy came after you build a lot of lombards, which you can use to macro and boom you eco, although, I would have the papacy tech affect some other part of Italy, maybe related to the basilica.
Also, European civs should get the unique church techs without needing a HC shipment.
1 Like
Yeah I was also thinking about that, since they are so focused on all that banking, vill penalties are just the most straightforward. We here have issues with inflation everywhere, no reason to introduce some gold generation-exchange penalties for Italians in case of committing to these special, costly, and prestigious units.
Personally, I’d only be against direct slowing things down (research and shipment times). Besides that, I don’t care about the nature of potential downsides.
Yeah, Italy eco is good, but after the re-nerf on HC shipments it’s not that OP anymore, especially when you consider that they lack a factory.
Maybe that could be literally the solution.
Papacy allow basilica units to be shipped alongside standard HC shipments, but the units are slower.
Yo quiero que los italianos puedan creear condottieros, siento que les falta eso no se por que xd (postdata: los schiavone deberian poderse crear igual de rapido que los sacerdotes para los italianos ya que en edad 3 necesitan de alguna escaramuza como el comer)
1 Like
Papal lancers could be called condottieri, since the condottieri were mercenary contractors, so not necessarily infantrymen or horsemen.
If you instead are referring to a similar unit to the aoe2 condo, then probably the most similar thing in the game is the rodelero.
mmm si pero ya habia pensado algo unico para ellos en un tema que hize hace tiempo llamado " cartas nuevas para futuras actualizaciones" hechale un ojo si quieres, lo comente en algo reciente y el rodelero urgentemente necesita un retrabajo ya que es una unidad demasiado de nicho, incluso podrian hacerla infanteria de choque
2 Likes
The problem is that mechanic isn’t working really well in treaty, now Italy is almost an unplayable civ in this modality is at the bottom of the tier list.
Maybe one of the few options for making them viable in the treaty are the papal units.
In treaty this modality isn’t working, I’ve never seen a Schiavone for example in a game or in streaming. I know that they are strong, maybe they are the only few good units that Italy has.
Mmm I think I remember to read something like that… I’ll look it up.
I believe that treaty should just have a different balance for all civs at this point…
The thing that is holding back Italy is probably the lack of 1 factory and the lack of guard and imp upgrades for the pavisier, a unit more suited for static deployment than the bersaglieri.
Buffing the usury card for lombards would help too probably.
I agree that the schiavoni can’t be used effectively, shipping them into age 2 takes too long, and the later ages it simply not worth anymore…
That’s why I suggest that the mercenary contractor age up should allow to train schiavoni at the lombards, instead of unlocking 2 age 4 units.
Schiavoni should just be available from Forts instead of the Basilica. They come from the Stato da Mar which was basically just the regions within the control of Italian forts on the Adriatic coast.
It’s actually surprising that there’s no emphasis on Forts for the Italian civ. They were a huge deal for maintaining their overseas possessions and were a major factor in Napoleon’s Italian campaigns.
2 Likes
While I do think schiavoni take too long, it’s not that bad because like skirmishers they have a good survival rate (which makes them actually appealing since you have a way to snipe those snipers).
I often combine with with pavisiers in age 2-3.
Honestly I think the Usury card spoils Italian players making the XP/shipment penalty a non-issue without it you can send papal units and schiavoni more often, since you don’t have a shipment blocking the queue.
How about an age IV card that makes the units trainable in the church instead of being shipments? Same numbers, cost and time. Not affected by train time improvements because theyre technically repeatable techs.
Makes having multiple churches more valuable as well.
2 Likes
I think that the time of the papal units will not be modified for balancing reasons, but we could discuss more the issue of increasing units at higher ages, with an increase of %5 for each age (from age 2):
Schiavone and Papal Guard: +2 units - age 3
+4 units - age 4
+6 units - age 5
Papal Lancer: +1 - age 4
+3 - age 5
Papal Zouave: +2 - age 4
+4 - age 5
The Papal Zouave should also have a melee resistance of %20, as cavalry counter them very easily and quickly, fitting more to their description.
Papal ranged infantry with high hit points that absorbs some of the damage inflicted to nearby allies. Deals high damage but possesses no damage multipliers. Countered by Artillery.
2 Likes