Ideas to improve the training mechanics of papal units

[pwaopwao]

I think the best solution is that the normal cards and the units sent from the basilica should have separate queues that don’t interfere with each other.

[DoctBaghi]

@M00Z1LLA

Schiavoni should just be available from Forts instead of the Basilica. They come from the Stato da Mar which was basically just the regions within the control of Italian forts on the Adriatic coast.

Venice held more than just forts, but anyway it’s still correct that they aren’t a baseline units, but a supplement of the army.

It’s just that the way of training them its not worth for what they offer…

@Quirriff

While I do think schiavoni take too long, it’s not that bad because like skirmishers they have a good survival rate (which makes them actually appealing since you have a way to snipe those snipers).
I often combine with with pavisiers in age 2-3.

Pavisier and schiavoni doesn’t synergies well in my opinion… with musketeers it’s better, but overall mass muskets with a shipment of pavisiers accomplish the same with less resources and time spent…

@Quirriff

Honestly I think the Usury card spoils Italian players making the XP/shipment penalty a non-issue without it you can send papal units and schiavoni more often, since you don’t have a shipment blocking the queue.

You probably mean the Uffizi, usury is the age 4 card, Uffizi is the basilica one that also allows you to have lombard generate xp.

Anyway that’s a must have card, it gives xp, allows you to research church tech for the free vills and actually try to get some papal units.

Also, it’s still better to flow xp and get HC shipments than get papal shipments, since HC shipments are cheaper, unless you are going for papal lancers… those are just too good.

@Opdepov

How about an age IV card that makes the units trainable in the church instead of being shipments?

Potentially that would mean 9 lancers coming out every 60 seconds from 3 basilicas… that’s hard to stop…

The overall problem of the basilica sistem is that the sistem it’s the same for 4 very different kind of units, and that’s of course balance around the strongest unit, because when you factor in just the papal lancers, the system is balanced.

[M00Z1LLA]

@DoctBaghi

Venice held more than just forts, but anyway it’s still correct that they aren’t a baseline units, but a supplement of the army.

The forts were how they controlled the rest. Without them, they wouldn’t have been able to hold any of their overseas possessions.

@DoctBaghi

It’s just that the way of training them its not worth for what they offer…

I think that’s a good baseline for them. A card that let you train them from Galleasses and Lombards could also make them more accessible. Or a card that lets Architects rebuild Forts could prevent you from losing access to them.

[DoctBaghi]

@M00Z1LLA

The forts were how they controlled the rest. Without them, they wouldn’t have been able to hold any of their overseas possessions.

No, they had the fidelity of several cities of the Istria and Dalmatia, they belonged to the venetian republic for more centuries than other inland italian cities.

@M00Z1LLA

I think that’s a good baseline for them. A card that let you train them from Galleasses and Lombards could also make them more accessible. Or a card that lets Architects rebuild Forts could prevent you from losing access to them.

I believe that they should be trained at lombards after the mercenary contractor age up (from age 2 to 3) since this would solve 2 problems:

• it would make schiavoni more accessible
• it would make the mercenary contractor age up actually give a reward for the age 3, instead of just being an age up for the age 4

[Whitby96]

Been thinking about this. Here’s an idea:

First click, the unit arrives fast.
Second click, the unit arrives at its current speed.
Third click, the unit arrives very slowly.

Sending a different Papal shipment, resets the cooldown back to fast on all the other units.

Would act as a solution to stop a player massing a wall of one specific unit and give some justification for variety.

I think this should be default, but could also be buffed up into a card. (very fast, fast, normal speed)

[DoctBaghi]

@Whitby96

First click, the unit arrives fast.
Second click, the unit arrives at its current speed.
Third click, the unit arrives very slowly.

3 papal lancers from the get go are a lot, and all I have to do to keep massing them is to send papal guards from every now and then… so that I can easily mass both lancers and halbs.

No, it’s just too much…

[toaf17]

Probably another way to approach the problem would be a technology in age V or age 4 card that allows them to be trained but in numbers limited to two shipments, for example being able to have only 6 papal lancers at the same time. That would in turn help the Italians to be more playable in treaty.

[toaf17]

Maybe that would be the best solution.

[DoctBaghi]

@toaf17

Probably another way to approach the problem would be a technology in age V or age 4 card that allows them to be trained but in numbers limited to two shipments, for example being able to have only 6 papal lancers at the same time. That would in turn help the Italians to be more playable in treaty.

It could be the effect of the papacy tech.