IDIOT TEAMPLAY FOG VISION SYSTEM

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
21

Its not about 2k level advice. Telling someone to go to stone in feudal is WRONG. Its wrong on 800, its wrong on 1500, its wrong on 2k, its wrong on 2.5k. Or to use your chess metaphor: You dont teach someone to go 1. a4 2. Ra3 when picking up the game, you tell them to start e4. Actually, only once people start getting better you teach them the weird gambits and stuff, or on aoe2: Only once a player gets better it might be useful to teach them about the few situations where taking stone in feudal is useful.

Why do i insist on this point so much?

Because i really doubt this is true. Sure, you tell us that

but this is simply wrong. I dont play 2v2, but in 3v3/4v4 im high enough rated to play vs. pros regularly (not that this is difficult) and many people - sometimes including professional players btw! - have problems communicating. Because its very, very hard. If i am under attack, i need to do quickwalls, keep up production, save vills, micro my army - and somehow open chat and tell them whats happening? The game is difficult already, but communicating with your team is extra difficult with a) no shared vision, b) only one ping, c) lots of useless taunts that make knowing the few useful ones more difficult, d) no voicechat.

So your basicially judging OP to be low elo because he struggles with something that is really, really hard? Tbh i doubt you would judge the same if he was expressing the same frustration in posh english, without exagerations and aggression.

There you actually have a point. However, i want to invite you to a thought experiment: What if your screen was really, really zoomed in - and you can only zoom out after researching some tech for 200wood. Would that be good? It would enable more tactical decisions: Do i want to play more comfortably or do i want to age up earlier? It truly is a decision, but not a good one. A strategy game should - imho - be as comfortable as possible, to truly let the mind of the players shine. And thats not possible if I have to find the time to chat all the time.

Yeah, there are arguments to lock shared team vision behind a considerable investment, but i think overall, the game would be better with free cartho for everyone, at least after hitting feudal. Players would be able to play more and chat less then - and it is a strategy game after all, not a chatroom.

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22

What if you’re going FC into UU, when are you going to get stone? Because sometimes i start in Dark age. In open maps sure it’s wrong, but in Arena or easy to close maps i don’t see why you wouldn’t go to stone a bit early. Not every civ in TG has to go the knight + xbows combo, when i play Koreans i’m sending 1-2 vils to stone super early, once i reach CA i have enough to make a castle and start making WW. Other times i send many to stone once i click up to CA.

So i think it depends on the strat you’re going for, but i’m no pro : )

23

Yes ofc. I even aknowledged that in my post:

But still, as a default advice “take stone in feudal” is wrong.

24

Ok, white knight. I could have easily mocked OP for his English, but did I? and what is the point in that?

Doubt all you want that I judge OP for his bad English, but at the end of the day I gave him advice while you went full social justice warrior mode for no reason.

Ok, what really grinded your gears was that I said he should go for stone in Feudal. At least that’s the official reason. But really, low elo, you’re better off going stone from Feudal to build walls & fast castle in Castle Age.

Ok, if you are such a pro, and at the same time, are such a white knight & social justice warrior. Why didn’t you give advice to OP? All of your answers are directed at me “for the sake of poor OP, not to be tricked by your evil plans to mislead him with STONE!” rather than at OP to actually help him with some advice.

Heck, you could help a lot of people given your skill level up to pro, you could give OP a build order that just following it will make him better. But instead, you’re much more focused replying to me for STONE! So, why don’t you? hmm, strange.

Detective Sherlock, I’m afraid your deduction was incorrect this time. What really made me think OP is low elo was the fact that his teammates always scream at him. But no, IT HAS TO BE that I think he is low elo because of this bad english, this deduction makes you feel good, because it says: Me bad bigot while you good social justice warrior cleaning up injustice.

If I’m that bad, you have an actual reason to go full jerk on me, otherwise you’re just a jerk who picks on people under the guise of self-righteousness, which is unacceptable, so of course I think OP is low elo because of his bad english, heck I even lied to him about the stone so that he can actually play bad, anything that puts me in a bad spot so you can justify to yourself being a jerk to me without feeling bad about yourself.

I want to invite you to a thought experiment as well: What if, having no shared vision is not at all like having your screen really really zoom in? Because it’s not, and you’re comparing apples to oranges.

There are cracks in your armor white knight.

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25

At least try to make sense. Your reponse constist if nothing but meaningless buzzwords. Try again, pls.

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26

No need to try again, it’s perfectly accurate as it is.

27

I’m pretty sure stone walls at low elo is bad cuz low elos know how to double people too. And if it’s at a level where players are really not agressive at all that they aren’t going to attack the least defended player then walls are likely not useful in the first place.

As of free cartography I don’t think there is any issue with it? Only thing I can think of is that when I play Nomad TG and someone randoms Portuguese my teammates sometimes complain about how they have trouble locating their vills on the mini map. But ig they could do it so that the shared LoS is tied to the first TC.

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28

what is stupid idiot 2k what is 2k 2k2k2k22kk22k2k2k what is this? what is 2k idiot?

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29

Do you not know what 2k means? 2000 elo, so definitely a good player. Not a pro, but very good none the less.

30

im single 1600elo 1700rank. im team 2300elo 3200rank.

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31

i dont know why they say 2k2k2k2k2k2k bla bla bla bla 2k2k2k22kk. i dontknow. i said just bad vision system. bad english bad english 2k2k2k2k2k bla bla bla… is he can say japan is he can say korean is he can say spanish? is good luck born in usa? oh dam… ok english world no.1 thats good. Congrats born english nation. im asian im bad english. so hard improve more good english. so hard. TranslationTranslationTranslation bla bla

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32

Basically “k” just means 1000 usually when it goes with a number. What language do you speak natively if you don’t mind my asking?

33

im korean 저는 한국인 입니다. 팀플레이 시장 비전은 좋지 않습니다.

34

kkkkkk stupid many player say ‘gg 2vs1 im out’ when i beat them i kill many enemi when i help him. random team player cant see cant trust cant understand situation! they just say ‘noob 2vs1 im out gg no help’ this is so stupid market.

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35

1k = 1000 ; 2k = 2000, basically k = 000.

Yes, I agree, hard for Korean to learn English, different alphabet/letters and different words, not related.

Have you tried finding another Korean player and play together with him? premade?

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37

나는 한국인이 아니다. 나는 당신이 이것을 읽을 수 있기를 바랍니다. 이 문장은 구글 번역기를 사용했습니다! 시장은 친구를 사귈 수 있는 곳이므로 팀 비전과 커머스

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38

Honestly I think it’s just not feasible to play TGs without friends, or rather, play any team game (LOL, DOTA, Apex) without friends, there are always toxic players that early-quit / grief / AFK etc and really difficult to communicate with them even without fog (what to do if your ally don’t understand that you want their onagers to cut trees?)

Giving team visions can help but I don’t think it “solves” the problem.

39

What about portuguese civ bonus.

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40

I wonder how this guy felt in Age of Kings. To get shared vision, you had to build the Market, and RESEARCH cartogrphy, which had a cost and took it’s time.

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41

And now rhink about why they changed it? It sucked…

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