I also think this is a bad design. But without this bonus or market bonus, they are just a underpowered and boring civ.
I want this one for Magyars. All CA units trains 25% faster.
or we can just leave them alone.
I wouldn’t mind. Both are fine as it is except for the bug.
Cavarly units trained 20% faster
I think the civ needs it as a civ bonus. Not lose it entirely.
Having “siege archers” means they don’t need to invest as much into siege weapons in castle age. Which ties into other civ’s more consistent eco bonuses
Saracens have specific power spikes due to their eco, but I don’t think it’s as consistent as something like Mayans(until very late game)
They also lack an economically efficient knight line equivalent unless you’re willing to invest into limited lifespan knights(making them only a limited time power spike), which is also a drag on their eco. As nice as their camels are they still don’t fill the same role as effectively as eagles, knights etc
Unique Tech imo, people want Obsidian Arrows back, I want CA with anti building damage so why not combine both.
Castle Age UT: Alchemy- Archers (excluding Skirmishers) deal +4 dmg vs buildings
This is already significantly weaker than Obsidian Arrows cause its 1 damage less than OA and Saracens dont have cheaper archers to mass them crazily. And for that you get +2 for free for all your team at the moment, +4 doesnt seem too crazy. Can also remove Arbalest if necessary to make it only +1 compared to the team bonus as Arabs werent really users of crossbows.
Zealotry becomes the civ bonus, which at only +10 seems a bit incomplete: Camel Units +10/+20HP in castle/Imp
New Team Bonus becomes: Horse Units trained 20% faster to give Saracens something for their Arabian Horse flavour and they were also one of the first civilzations which wrote recipes for horse breeding
Probably a better call. NGL, it is really a fun bonus to play with but very annoying to face against. Problem with the bonus being a TB is other flank with top tier archer like Britons or machine gun archer Ethiopians often feels OP to me.
Which is better than Koreans post imp Cavalier and arguably even better than Vikings, Malay, Bohemians.
True. But I think after DOI, it is still the best knight replacement for any non-American civ imo.
Wait, what? Really? Who? I want to meet them. it was a horrible tech. No more bringing it back please.
This. The time or two ice seen it brought up on reddit, gets laughed off
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I’ll argue it’s better than all of those because its decent in the castle age moment and better than all of those at that point.
Wanting OA back for Mayans is a bad idea but something like a unique tech that restores the old Saracen CA bonus would probably be fine, like they merged it with the archer bonus then didn’t bother to put it back in when they introduced the camel bonus because absolutely no one cared about Saracens CA competitively anyway.
I would say pretty much underused it would then be. People should really stop crying out of overreaction.
OA on a civ with 30% cheaper arbs that does +5 damage is totally different to +4 for a civ with only FU xbow and not as good UU (so castle investment doesnt pay off as easily). Right now, Saracens get +2 for free, I ask for +3 effectively an age later and you need a castle and Ut.
For most buildings +2 is essentially +1 as the building often has enough Pierce armor to offset the full value of the Pierce attack.
For most buildings is a flat 3 if you’re talking about Saracens bonus.
It’s mistakenly written as +2 but it’s already +3 in reality.
It means you can’t do less than 3 damage against buildings, and as you said, since most buildings have high pierce armor values, you’d simply do 3.
Its +3 as a consequence as bonus damage now. the tb was buffed from +2 to +3
After new UT “Counterweight”, Saracens have top 10 siege units in game. They don’t need any more “Siege” unit.
Yeah it is.
And people should also stop turning archer into siege unit.
The only reason, I don’t want to change Saracens TB despite not liking the idea is it gives them an unique way to play - market (ab)use into 1 TC archer all in. Any nerf to their archer or their market will make them a jack of all trade, master of none civ. Their camel play is already worse than Berbers, Gurjaras and Hindustanis.
From today’s update
- Generating gold by only selling/buying resources in the market as Saracens is no longer possible.
Bug has been fixed without changing Saracens balance as I hoped. But
They had a 4th option. Changed bottomed out market price.
Saracens market
Lowest buying price used to be 21 before.
Generic market with guild
Previously lowest buying price used to be 23.
Generic market without guild is unchanged. Lowest buying price is still 26.
So market is changed secretly. (Unless I’m horribly wrong and this change was made way earlier).
I hope this only affects bottomed market because otherwise Saracens will suck
Also, I feel this was pretty unnecessary either way
yes. Only bottomed.
Absolutely.
Give em Camel Scouts but don’t let the Camel HP kick in until Feudal if they need compensation.