What the dravidians lack is a knight replacement so this unit should have a bonus against foot archers and militia line units.Both knights and eagle units cost food and gold so im assuming this unit should do the same.
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Why would anyone want slower training villagers in a building that is more expensive than a town center?
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Hello
I can share some photos I have.
I’ve been researching South India/South Asia for the past few months… and I managed to find some material with photos/images.
If you could share more content and knowledge, I would appreciate it.
I’ll just give a brief explanation, and if I made any mistakes, please correct me or help me complete it.
Introduction:
The SOUTH INDIA region, regarding language and people:
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The Hoysala dynasty spoke the Kannada language and belonged to the people who inhabited the Karnataka region in southern India. They were native to the area, which differentiated them from other dynasties of the time that may have originated further north.
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The Vijayanagara Empire was a multi-ethnic and multilingual entity in India, and the language spoken and the people to whom it belonged varied throughout its history and region. However, the dominant languages were Kannada and Telugu. Note: “Golden Age of Telugu Literature” was during the Vijayanagara Empire.
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The Chola Dynasty, Pandya Dynasty, and Chera Dynasty: spoke the Tamil language and belonged to the Tamil people, a Dravidian ethnic group originating from southern India.
Basically and in summary,
South India did not use body armor, such as chainmail and iron plates… due to the hot and humid climate. They basically fought using shields and weapons, but without armor… sometimes they fought with basic body protection, such as leather or fabric. However, there was an exception in South India, and that was the Kannada people (Hoysala Dynasty).
The Hoysala Dynasty had access to merchants from northern India, and thus acquired armor. However, I don’t know if it was actually chainmail or iron plate armor, or a material that imitated it.
Regarding the Kannada people, I would like them to be separated from the Vijayanagara Empire. Because the two are very different in their use of armor and helmets, which would help to create unique and differentiated units.
Vijayanagara should be represented by the Telugu people, and the Hoysala Dynasty by the Kannada people.
Hoysala used armor: for the knights, as well as for their horses, and even the elephants wore body armor that covered their bodies. It was probably for the elite warriors of the army.
The Vijayanagara did not use body armor; however, they did wear unique helmets of two very different types:
– one was a conical and elongated helmet (there were two types, one for the nobility and another for military use)
– the other was a metal helmet with an oval shape. It had an ornament on the front.
Now, let’s look at pictures of the Kannada people of the Hoysala Dynasty:
—> The horse is unarmored. However, the rider is wearing body armor:
—> Horse wearing armor, and a rider possibly wearing heavy armor, even showing armor on their feet? Boots?
Animals were also used for heavy labor in South India.
Buffalo pulling carts with wood and food, and elephants carrying stones/ores.
This could yield some new units for economic use in the game.
Photos below:
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So 3 civs,
Dravidians → Tamils : Navy & Easy access to wood for booming
Kannadigas : Heavy Cavalry and quality infantry which beats others with little economy bonuses
Telugus : Siege civ + Fortifications
What about the other 2?
That is a one time investment. Its 200 stone in order to not abuse FC builds by selling stone in the market and booming ahead of opponent. If its 100 wood and 100 stone, the monastry will equal cost of TC. The next Temple will become too cheap and spamable. Despite the slow vill production, you can outboom opponent by virtue of being earlier to castle age. But I see you point.
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Regarding these 3 peoples… they all heavily used war elephants.
They even had several different shapes for their “howdah” which were placed on the backs of their elephants. (That’s where the soldiers stood, to shoot arrows or throw spears).
I’ve only focused my studies, so far, on the very South of India.
Sorry, I don’t have the knowledge to speak about the others.
Anyone who has knowledge can post it here.
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I’d first suggest designing good units for that region since Aoe2 devs have made it clear that there’ll be no knights or CA for those civs. Last thing I’d wish to have is more useless elephant and water civs with no knights or CA.
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I always thought that was a reference to AoE3 Indians not getting Horse units (which makes no sense there either and should have been changed in DE), so I always hated that about them.
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Historically, in South India, they really needed to import horses… and their military cavalry was of the light category.
However, heavy cavalry existed with the Kannadas (Hoysala Dynasty).
So, I hope to see them in the game.
Regarding elephants… they will need to create new types of elephants.
And the infantry had some really cool weapons, for example: Urumi, Valari, katar, and the heavy Gada.
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It is fascinating that this depiction also portrays the Kalingans (Eastern Ganga Dynasty) as horse archers, specifically showing the bow mounted to the saddle of the standard-bearer.
This aligns with historical evidence like the Konark War Horse sculpture built post Katasin, Lakhnauti and Umardan victories of Eastern Ganga Dynasty against Delhi Sultanate, which clearly features a quiver integrated into the saddle rigging.
This article also mentions →
From a strategic standpoint, a high-mobility cavalry would have been essential for the Gajapatis (Suryavamsha Dynasty) to manage their vast empire. Being surrounded by five rival powers (Jaunpur, Bahmanis, Bengal, Malwa, and Vijayanagar) required the ability to redeploy forces rapidly across long distances.
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Perhaps Kalingans can get a Cavalry Archer Unique Unit or similar unit (Archer type Konnik?).
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Why cant they have the CA line instead of the EA line?seems like they had a good number of cavalry archers.
I just don’t see why devs cannot just give Dravidians, Knights itself. Maybe without even the Cavalier Upgrade. It will be interesting to see Wootz Steel upgraded Knights. Also they should give Dravidians, Bloodlines upgrade as a slight HP boost, which will also benefit the Battle Elephant without needing Elite upgrade.
They should really use the opportunity with Indian civs to diversify the tech tree a bit, to give some Indian civs Rams, some Indian civs Knights and as such rather than using the same rule for all.
You would make two town center with that stone and boom faster and will not need the monastery at all
Great stuff, @MadMax8915 and @Juggernaut8704!
Thanks for the research. It looks like Kannadas and Kalingans would bring some much-needed variety (Heavy Cav and Horse Archers) that we don’t really see with the current elephant civs of South and Southeast Asia.
To build on the research from those forum posts, here are some further ideas to flesh out the Kannadas and Kalingans as distinct civilizations for a potential DLC:
The Kannadas (The Rashtrakutas/Chalukyas)
While the forum post highlights Heavy Cavalry, we can lean into their architectural and administrative legacy to make them feel unique.
- Unique Unit: “Hoysala Knight” – An exceptionally tanky heavy cavalry unit that gains a small armor bonus for every nearby allied unit (simulating their disciplined formations).
- Economic Bonus: “Temple Economy” – Since they built marvels like Ellora, perhaps their Monasteries provide a small gather rate aura to nearby villagers, or Villagers cost -5% for every Age advanced.
- Unique Tech: “Vatapi Siegecraft” – Allows their heavy cavalry to deal a small amount of bonus damage to buildings, reflecting their successful campaigns against northern fortified cities.
The Kalingans (The Eastern Gangas/Gajapatis)
Since they fill the Cavalry Archer niche, we can differentiate them from the Huns or Mongols by focusing on their naval history and defensive prowess.
- Unique Unit: “Paika Horse Archer” – A fast-moving cavalry archer with a shorter range but a high rate of fire and a “poison” or “bleed” mechanic that slows enemy movement.
- Naval Bonus: “Sadhabas Merchants” – Kalinga had massive maritime influence. Their Trade Cogs could generate a small amount of Food in addition to Gold, or Docks could act as Drop-off points for all resources.
- Unique Tech: “Stone Fortifications” – In honor of the Konark Sun Temple and their massive forts, this tech could give Walls and Towers +20% HP and allow Watch Towers to fire an extra arrow.
Comparative Overview
| Feature | Kannadas | Kalingans |
|---|---|---|
| Primary Focus | Heavy Cavalry / Infrastructure | Cavalry Archers / Maritime Trade |
| Military Vibe | Slow-moving, high armor, unstoppable | Hit-and-run, high mobility, naval control |
| Wonder Idea | Kailasa Temple (Ellora) | Konark Sun Temple |
The Elephant Synergy: Even though these civs fill non-elephant niches, they are still Indian civs. To keep them thematic:
- Kannadas: Could have an “Elephant Escort” where Infantry move faster when within 5 tiles of an Elephant.
- Kalingans: Could have “Marine Elephants”—their Transport Ships could have significantly more HP or the ability to fire arrows when carrying elephant units.
Unrelated to the topic, is anyone else having the forum send you to the middle of topics randomly? I don’t think I’m clicking anything that would cause that to happen.
As a new user, I’m still familiarizing myself with the platform, but I haven’t noticed any unusual activity from my side.
Would it be a bad idea to make a one civi for kannada and telugu both similar to kitanguts(khitans with tangut elements) or sicilians(normans + generic crusader).
I just want Telugus mainly for Rudrama Devi. She would be an amazing female protagonist in an otherwise male dominated history.
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Is it a “bad idea”? No. In the context of game development resources, it is a smart way to represent South-Central India. However, it would likely be met with the same criticism as the current “Dravidians” civ that it is a “lazy umbrella” that ignores the specific martial identities of the two largest linguistic groups in Southern India.
I would prefer separate civilizations (e.g., “The Chalukyas” for Kannada and “The Kakatiyas” for Telugu). If that isn’t possible, I would accept a combined civ only if it is framed as the Vijayanagara Empire, emphasizing the fusion of the two cultures during the late Middle Ages.
If the devs only have room for one more Southern Indian civ, a combined civ is the frontrunner. If they want to satisfy the historical accuracy enthusiasts, they must be split.
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Paika is already used as a Unique Tech name of Bengalis. You should use a different name.
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Idkw.