Then just try it out yourself. Tower rushing means high risk for the rushing player. He’s leaving and exposing his base.
There’s different strategies that can lead to victory. People really need to deal with it. We have rarely read anything concerning OP Delhi some weeks ago when their win rate was on par or even higher than Mongols.
Seems like people over here have a very big problem getting distracted early on in this game but when something is obviously overpowered/cheese in mid-late game (Delhi) there’s no complaints at all.
I don’t even see where this strat is overpowered. I didn’t watch all last rounds Golden League matches but the ones I watched I cant remember a Chinese tower rush leading to an easy victory.
So yes you might not want to get to hear that but: Get good.
I actually scouted out a Barbican right outside of my base, pulled my scout and half my villagers to stop it, but the chinese still built it with just five villagers. Geez they build so fast… anytime I go against Chinese I just auto build an outpost on the nearest periphery. Annoying to have to waste 100 wood doing that but yeah, only Delhi cheese gets nerfed, everyone else gets to keep theirs.
One issue is, that it’s quite hard to learn / exercise against the tower rushes. I guess pros have their training buddies and can prepare and then no issue… But someone with limited time and contact to other players… I can watch a video, and understand the theory of how to defend against it, but against people who don’t do anything else in the game, just do these rushes, you need good execution, and that comes only from practice.
I would love some Art of War / mod challenge where AI is scripted to do an all in tower rush against me, where I can go and exercise this.
Experiencing it 1-2 a week does not help to get good with execution and still a very annoying way to loose. I don’t blame the game for it, but still hard to prepare for it, thus annoying.
And I think, this tower rush is mostly annoying because deep down, everyone feels it could be prevented, but doesn’t have the execution skills to do so. So it highlights our lack of skill very much, and we cannot do much against it, because no real good way to practice.
Watching MarineLord in Golden League, he probably was quite happy to be tower rushed, because he knows exactly how to react, and come out on top and has the skills for that. If you are like that, you have advantage, since it was quite an invest for the opponent.
You should have included this in your opening post. If you’re gold 3 with this strat, but silver 2 with the next best strat you know / have encountered, that is quite decent evidence that it’s an excessively strong strat.
Eh… Thank you for supporting my argument? That’s what I’m saying. Tower rush is so easy it gets you to way too high elo compared to what you deserve
What the hell. You can’t be serious? You seriously bragging about outmacroing noobs on your smurf after exploiting tower rush? You are the worst kind of person.
Dude of course resource management and build order is “unpolished” when you use an exploit that prevents them from using their bo…
I already said I tried this. I pretty much never lost and climbed several ranks
If the game is balanced around getting to golden league level you can’t possibly not see there’s a problem. Defending tower rush have very little to do with getting good at RTS. You have to use very specific methods to defeat it, not use RTS knowledge or skills.
You know Ranked start with matching low ELO players?
Defending Tower Rush required Scouting awareness and the risk and danger accessment what you should do when you encountered this, which a Silver tier doesn’t have.
Stop claiming you are playing competitive if you continue like this, which you are not.
Then maybe not make a new account to abuse these lower tiers which in your own words won’t be able to stop it? Incredible toxic loser mentality.
I’m plat and I still have no idea how to beat tower rush. There’s no real way to counter it except by being way better. Sending several vils to build a tower yourself which you have to vs china puts you behind him if he sends less. 1: Because more vils have to move back and forth.Walking time from enemy base isn’t as long as you think 2: Because you are now out of your build order while he’s doing what he did the last 100 games 3: Because he can cancel while you have to keep the tower up. 4: Because your eco is disturbed, and not his. 5: because you might have to get siege engineers to take them down which is free win for him. It doesn’t really matter if you scout it or not, because most people will build first tower too far away to send vils or anything to stop. And you must be sure not to overreact either. All in all stopping tower rush is extremely complicated, while executing one is just following a simple recipe. But there are some people here refusing to aknowledge how exploitative it is because they are doing it themselves.
Chinese have one of the lowest winrates across all tiers in ranked season. There’s just no anomaly to be observed. As I have mentioned they were a mid to low tier level in Golden League too. So the win rate of chinese seems to be quite constant for any skill level. Same with 1on1 Quickmatch. Chinese are constantly below 50 % win rate and if not ranked worst they are still close to the worst ranked civ.
With mongols we have seen a clearly OP tower rush. The stats have clearly shown it and players across all skill levels have said that its not balanced out (vortix, beastyqt etc).
Is there anything that tells us that this strategy is OP besides personal experiences which usually just are a terrible measure when trying to make general statements?
I have heard. But people talk about things all the time. What did who say? And do we have stats that clearly say that this strat is OP? I mean if it was such an easy OP strat, the chinese most likely wouldn’t be a trash tier civ.
1: What is the 48 % win rate referring to? I guess ranked results on all levels combined? Again: Chinese have a negative win rate for each tier (always in the range of 46-49). Doesn’t matter if Golden League (pros), low elo and low ranked (less skilled players). The win rate is low. So if it is easy to defend for pro players but hard for new players, why does this assumption not get reflected in the stats?
When we had the mongol towerrush pretty much nobody was honest and we saw mongols having a win rate of 55-60 % depending on elo (which dropped after increasing cost of tower), so now all of a sudden the majority of the players chooses to play honest? How do you know that?
2: Who are “they”? Where/When did “they” say that and in what context?
Is there a video of someone playing it and stating that it is OP? I have done my 5 minutes search but couldn’t find any.
So please provide some sort of proof that this strategy is OP. I have no problem with admitting that it is OP, if that’s the case. But so far I haven’t seen any valid arguments at all apart from personal feelings because someone lost a game to it and just generally does not want to be distracted in the first minutes of the game.
On another note, in specific civ combos, an early aggression by towers or any other means is almost always necessary, if you want to have a realistic chance if winning. If you don’t try to deny / delay gold access for French, they will snowball into a big knight army, or they come with mass archers and ram you shortly.
If you let English do their thing, you will have a hard time to do deal with longbows as they deny you everything. If you let Abbasid go for 3-4 TCs, they will out boom everyone. If you let Delhi take all the sacred site, etc…
Often it is not toxic play or an all in… but almost the only chance to catch up to their eco / other bonuses. So it’s encoded in the game that you need to be aggressive in these matches to get slight advantage. From the receiving end, it’s very annoying to not be able to follow the plan, look for alternatives, play against the playbook of the opponent, where I was not prepared to…
France and Rus are great vs tower rush. Get to feudal, use school of Cavalry to pump scouts or Hunting Cabin. Archery range to snipe vills + scouts to burn down towers with auto heal if you pull them back.
Delhi is just sadge vs towers. Army, keep pressure on their base, control sacred sites and get to castle. No option for early ram means you’ll just have to cede space to survive.
Abbasid an early ram never hurts + feudal mass for Abba is unmatched. Trushers usually don’t make as much army.
China could get a supervised stable and range for quick answer or supervised siege engineering but trushing a Chinese player with Barbican option is not going to go too well.
Trushing Mongols is an exercise in futility. They will out produce everything.
English can zone their base better than most other civs with less dependance on map food + the option of early MAA.
HRE lol
But yes, in general I agree with you. Outpost design in this game is really bad and it’s incredibly easy to punish a bad map spawn (and there are some horrible map spawns). Handcannon slits is dirt cheap for the damage it provides. Springald emplacements are incredibly annoying where you can just put 6 in your base or in a ring around your enemy’s base and shut down all movement and the only thing that will take it out is a treb. Unlike some of the other responders to this post believe, trushers most definitely are not trying to “understand the game”.
China, Mongol and English are really notorious when it comes to this because a 100 wood, small stone investment (free collection for Mongol) has high damage (China), gives units free speed boosts (Mongol) and makes all units including siege [fix this Devs] fire faster (English)
At low elo (which is the case here) agressive play is always more valuable because it punish a way more any mistakes. It’s te same in all RTS.
Coming from aoe3 as well, some strat was considered too strong at low level (like double jan rush) but not that much at hight level. And to be honest, aoe3 was a way more "allin"esque than aoe4 (i was an allin master in aoe3, reputed for that specificly and i struggle a way more in aoe4).
So i don’t see any valuable reason to nerf the tower rush, some strat are much easier to execut, yes that’s the life, next time it will be the spam feodal maa, or spam longbow pik.
That said, i am pretty sure the chinese tower is not even that much strong at low level, if you look at their winrate, at silver/gold level, it’s pretty low the first 15 min.
So based on the data we have, we can conclude that the chinese tower rush don’t seem to be an issue at silver/gold level as the winrate of chinese in those league the first 15 min (when the strat isdone) is below 50%.