Increase berserk Pierce armor by 1 or 2

i agree with this, their high speed helps counter the usual infantry issue of pathing

same for the shotel, so would think max -5R (when he said R i was like rupees? rand? rubles)

They may have a bonus against cavalry, but it doesn’t really make them anti cavalry per se.
I wouldn’t send these against cavaliers for instance unless they had some monks healing them at the same time and attempting hit’n run with cover fire let alone against palladins

It’s a castle unit and infantry to boot, of course it’s going to beat generic champions.

Archers shred through them as is, and adding in a single pierce armor won’t change that by much.
Part of the objective is to help their retreat potential, not frontal assault potential by any large margin

As for monk micro, I use healing fortress formations which increase the viability/time-frame that monks have to convert if I wish to.

Then again I am a user of the Teutons’ Healing Fortress formation which shreds through a near unlimited amount of berserks and 'most any other unit aside from some high dps types/certain exceptions

They actually beat generic cavaliers 1v1 and they’re cheaper than knight line so they’re cost effective vs Paladins

7 Likes

Okay, that sounds fair considering that vikings lack a bunch of unit type upgrades. How many shots does it take to kill a berserk in a single volley? And how much would it take with an extra 1 or 2 pierce armor shots respectively

Vikings also have Arbalests and Elite Skirmishers with Bracer, so it is not like they miss anti-Archer measures.

Vikings only really lack cavalry and I guess monks. They’re above average elsewhere.

It doesn’t matter. There are a lot of civs, units and techs that are in much higher priority of needing help. Vikings are a top tier land and water civ. If you really want to Berserks to not be weak against ranged units, mix in siege rams. A lot of civs struggle against siege ram+Berserk play

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To be honest, they are a well designed Infantry civ. 2 Weaknesses (Cavalry and Monks), 3 Strengths (Archers, Infantry and Naval).
They even have Siege Rams and Siege Engineers, so their options are great there too.

1 Like

okay, so a elite berserk has 75 health and 5 pierce armor fully buffed.
an arbalest with full upgrades does 10 damage.
10-5 = 5 damage per shot.
75 health/5 damage = 15 shots.
if you increased their pierce by 1
10-6 = 4 damage per shot
75 health /4 damage = 18.75 (19 shots)
if you increased their pierce by 2
10-7 = 3 damage per shot
75 health / 3 damage = 25 shots.

4 Likes

i agree with everything you have said. i have no issues with buffing condos, shotels, and karambits.
but if Berserks, TK, and JW are getting buffs, i would hope it would be when civ balance is in a much better state then it currently is.

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Okay, for units like the Berserker, I think that just below 20 shots would be the sweet spot, 25 would be nice, but again that may be too much of a buff for the frontal offensive charges

you’d basically be turning the unit into a huskarl at 25. except it has better attack and melee defense overall, regen, and ofcourse is backed by a civ with a much better economy.

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I agee that infantry UUs are often underused.

Karambit and shotel do need a small buff imo, like a cost reduction.

JW and TK belong to good civs, so we should be a bit conservative.

Condos are underused but more difficult to balance since they are a team unit. Italians also need other kinds of buff.

Regarding Vikings well… berserker may be buffed but only in the elite variant. Vikings are 100% fine with good archers, solid infantry and top eco (maybe top 1) until imp.

However, in late imp Vikings miss a solid option. Arbalest are generic and, especially in TG, they are not the way to go (fine, Vikings are not an archer civ). Their economy becomes just generic. Berserker should be their way to go. So if their only late game option is a bit stronger is not a big issue.

However, before buffing Vikings, there are several other priorities: civs which really do need fixes much more than Vikings

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And does not die to Hussars like the Huskarl does (Chieftains being the cherry on top).

Can you tell me how do you find Jaguar Warriors so powerful?

From my experience they are not that good except specific instances. For example 1v1 against Goths and that’s about it.

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overall they aren’t.
on the other hand, aztecs are so strong that even post nerf many people consider them still to strong and Viper specifically said it was the civ he thinks most needs a nerf.

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Huskarls are an anti archer unit; it makes sense that they have less heavy armor against physical attacks to keep their defense against archers their ability to be speedy. Berserks are more middle of the road. It would make sense if they have a little more pierce armor. Remember that it is a castle unit.

you can’t make a unit with high melee armor, high pierce armor, regeneration, and high attack, without some sort of downside.

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I consider their melee armor to be perfect as it is, and I don’t consider it to be high or even overpowered. The ranged armor is close, but can do with 1 more pierce armor to be a perfectly balanced unit. Much like the huskarl is beloved by the Goths or the Teutonic Knight beloved by Teutons, the berserker is the middleground

its easily the best or second best melee UU in the game.
and the only thing keeping it from being stronger is its weakness to archers (and i use that loosely as the Berserk is relatively fast, at least compared to archers).

on a civ that currently sports a 53% winrate?

the huskarl is the backbone of the goths army and they don’t have much going for them outside of their barracks and spam.

except the TK isn’t used all that much due to its slow speed. you’re more likely to see Paladin + Halb from Teutons.

and that doesn’t mean it should have high pierce armor, high melee armor, regeneration, and a high base attack too.

If you want the berserk buffed, you’re going to have to see some sort of nerf to Vikings as they currently stand. and let me further that stance a little bit. some sort of LAND nerf.
the unit has the attack and melee defense of a Paladin as is. and a bonus versus cavalry, and with research, regenerates over half its health in a minute.

3 Likes

One way it might be done- nerf their rams to ensure that the berserkers will take more shots in the case of rams×berserker×archer,etc formations