Agreed. Equal numbers would be interesting.
However, don’t forget to take Supplies into account here. Resource counts are still close for Kamayuk.
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Oh yes supplies, how’d I forget. That evens it out.
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That still makes Kamayuks more population efficient.
halbs after squires are already very fast, buffing anymore is a nerf to the slower cavalry like knights and cav archers will struggle more against them.
Also Catas once FU and massed can’t be stopped by halbs alone. 40 of them with trample will destroy 100 halbs with like 4 casualties. Is it unfair? not at all since Cataphract itself and its upgrades are very expensive and take time to mass up. You only have to worry about them in DM matchups
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Not even then. Bizantine Cavalry is awful. They have discounted Heavy Camels, but without Bloodlines and Blast Furnace, and their Paladins lose to a lot of Cavaliers from other civs.
Cataphracts are there to ensure Bizantines does not get swamped with better Trash than what they can muster themselves.
It bothers me that the Spearmen line do not have any shields in hand. Either that or they should use spears two-handed. But no. I wonder if anyone is trying to mod this; I recall there was a graphic mod for spearmen to have shields in AOK:HD.
They use spears with 2 hands atleast when attacking, do they not? Not home so can’t refresh my memory myself.
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Whut? He just quoted what @RoomOfTheEvil said. Maybe he misscliked and the citation got glitched but otherwise he didn’t said that.
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They use spears two-handed.
One-handed melee spears were phased out after Classic Antiquity. Even the Romans used two-handed spears for melee.
I don’t get the point of this whole thread. Halbs are already the single most produced unit infantry unit in the game. And Cataphract = OP? Did you mean “the unit that takes thousands of ressources to upgrade, is massed from a Castle and is buildable by a slow civ”?
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Yes, he did; I literally copy-pasted his statement that I have in quotes.
It was edited out after he made his post that mine was in reply to. The only reason I caught it was because my post was made immediately (less than a minute) after his, so he didn’t have time to edit it after realizing he contradicted his statement instead of acknowledging a mistake.
If you analyze the context of the posts around it, too, including RoomOfTheEvil’s comment and JonOli’s reply, it’s blatantly clear there was some quick edits made.
Anyway. Off topic. I just don’t trust people who won’t admit to mistakes or trying to cover up stuff like that. 
On topic: I really don’t think the Spearman line should get a speed buff. If anything, 5% at most? They’re already fairly quick, and are trash units.
I made no such mistake, nor did I try to cover anything.
That’s the exact same line right? What is the likeliest: that it was a mistake or that he would purposely agree with and yet still try to debunk it?
Or you know, he just realized his mistake after posting and edited it so that people would read what he actually meant? And of course he didn’t said he made a mistake, that was just a missclick on a random internet post, people don’t care about the history of each and single post. No need to include a changelog and an apology each time.
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Please continue discussion on the movement speed of the spearman line. If there is something off-topic that you would like to address with another user, please do so over private message.
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Halbs are the single most produced infantry because there are like 3 infantry (1 available only to a few civs) and the other one costs gold? As somebody said, if you have gold, even if little, you produce something faster than a swordsman or more useful depending on the situation. That doesn’t mean halbs fullfil their purpose which is defending against horses. It just means halbs are better than a villager.
I get it but paldin/knight is also a heavy gold costing unit (costs the same as a cataphract), it doesn’t require a castle but cataphracts are built faster, but they don’t have a winning 50:150 ratio. I haven’t tried but i don’t think they even have a 50:100 ratio.
Halbs actually might be the most produced unit period among all classes except villagers.
I don’t get why you’re mad about the cataphract. If someone actually gets to the point of 3+ castles, research upgrades that cost 2600F and 1400 gold (excluding blacksmith) and still manages to mass about 40 of them, then you deserve to lose. Especially if all you could muster against them is halbs this whole time
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I’m on mobile this whole time, so I’ll write up something proper (and an apology if I’m reading things right 
) later.
However, totally agree on Cataphracts. If you get to the point where they’re massed, they should handily beat Halberdier. Arbalest counter them very gold effectively if you use formations properly and micro.
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So we changing shifts ay? I just got on my laptop kek. Been spending all day on my phone to type here.
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We don’t have any data to back it up. It might be hussars because they are the most effective one costing only food, the less risky investment.
I am not really mad about cataphracts. I am just stating that infantry civs, except bulgarians, don’t have any way to counter it.
Byzantynes don’t get furnace and they have lower cost imperial age and also lack bloodline, saving them around 600 gold and 815 food. Also due to the fact that they have cheaper thrash units and cheaper camels in castle age to use (although a little bit weaker because of missing bloodline), they can use the market in their favor at early age with greater return. But ignoring this, if we subtract the food and gold they save, it only costs them 1800 food and 800 gold. In comparison the upgrade from knight to paladin costs 1600 food and 1000 gold.
The point was ratio. He doesn’t need 40 cataphracts.
Infantry civs don’t have much option and i tried the other combinations that somebody suggested here.
And the main topic is still the spearman lack of speed. Balance issue for the cataphracts was just me wondering if they were really that powerful.
Samurai are DEFINITELY cost effective against Cataphracts. I tested it a few times in a match with a guy. We stopped fighting to test Samurai vs Catas. Catas were killed pretty well actually.
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