Indian units concept

Culv wars is a lost war for india. I feel Howdas do a better job. In general india have a hard time to stop mortars because haha your culverin (that has to be in the front) is countered by any unit.

And SEs do less damage to culverins

Plus lack of factories to support economy if you send Rockets to kill infantry.

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everyone overlooks that goons have 2x (or more) vs siege elephants, and really only have a small margin of effective ranged Hp more than any other cheap cannon. I don’t understand the thinking that skirms need to be a hard counter as well when goons are so effective already and india has no anti infantry cannon

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Banduqchi are musketeers, not skirmishers. It would make much more sense for them to be Mughal musketeers and have Sepoy be a mercenary.

Toradar could be another option for musketeers that could be more generally applicable to multiple India civs.

Prangi could serve as a light infantry unit if you want to move Gurkhas to a mercenary. They’d be similar to an Abus Gun.

Purbiyas would be the obvious option for camel cavalry mercenaries. They were generally Rajputs.

Just Howdah is fine as a name.

Again, this is a musketeer being forced into the skirmisher role. I’m pretty sure Karnataki musketeers are just musketeers from Karnataka. If Gurkhas become mercenaries, another light infantry one seems redundant.

If you make them artillery like Abus Gunners then you’re quadrupling their damage against artillery. I think it would be better to give them a role more like Rifle Riders, like this:

Gajnal should be more focused into the anti-artillery role. For anti-building artillery, an actual Siege Elephant that carries around a big cannon and has to set it up would be great.

I’d also like to see India get actual artillery like this:

Just a note :
All these suggestions of keeping even the lowest of mughal units as mains, and rest as merc, is unintentionally making the Indian civ

more of a MUGHAL civ (which its never supposed to be)

And doesn’t represent the India as a CIV that holds elements of everything. The Current roster inculcates as much as possible. From Just after AOE2 to AOE3. Yet still doesnt properly inculcate the missing MAJOR powers. Like malwa and Axoms and others.

Lol I don’t even know how to get howdahs to effectively work against artillery (I’ve tried xD). With the 16 range, I get shredded by 20+ range skirm before getting to the culverins behind. And if the enemy plays natives or has melee units, you’re lucky to even get a few shots in, let alone you have to consider the high ranged resistance of to tank enough shots to get away. It’s not been cost effective for me to send suicidal howdah to overextend and get arty

I feel like that although India has had really good improvements (treaty-wise), since you know that 30 is the max range India that can do anything with, you just gotta wall up the map to prevent the run, then force a heads up fight with mass arty and culvs. When India runs out of fur trade gold, it’s pretty much over

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It is 100% intentional. An Indian umbrella civ is absurd and it should be split into Mughals, Maratha, Mysore, etc.

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The split is unfeasible in AOE3 timeline.

Mysore was more or less independent from 1565-1799 and continued on as part of the British Raj. They were militarily active and famously fought off the British.

Maratha was independent from 1674-1818 and before that the Marathas would have been significant players in the ####### and Ahmadnagar Sultanates.

Yes I know, yet by the Indian perspective the time period is relatively small and too much happening there. Also the split will not create enough “cohesive” content.

Hence I said the AOE3 split is not feasible.

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Units using muskets do not have to be Musketeers in the game. The weaponry doesn’t necessary to define the units, like the Musket Rider is as same type of light cavalry as the Rifle Rider.
The point is what roles do we need, and we need skirmishers in Barracks.
Shamsherbaz, Sepoys and Banduqchis happen to be the common main infantry classes of the Mughal Empire, so I decided that.

I don’t really mind what the light infantry should be called, but being similar to the Abus Gunner means it can’t be available in Barracks.

Honestly, it doesn’t matter at all. People never complained that the British could ship Highlanders and Irish Brigadiers, even though both they are heavy ranged infantry.

Maratha infantry specialized in guerrilla fighting rather than line fighting, which is closer to the concept of jaegers and skirmishers. I want to give both the Gurkhas and the Maratha infantry who specialize in guerrilla a decent representation.

The point of being like Abus Gunners is in visual…

In my opinion, having artillery like Falconets or Great Bombards changes the balance too much. The Gajnal actually had swivel guns mounted on the back of an elephant, similar to the Zamburak. It is impossible for a real elephant to mount a big cannon on its back and use it to siege.

But I mentioned in other threads that it could be nice to allow the Indians to ship the Great Bombards which was pulled by oxen and operated by local Indian crews.

I said I am not an expert on India. I never thought that I was building an encyclopedia of India to cover every corner of India. I just try to bring more Indian flavor. Sure I may have something missed.

When the Marathas no longer are to be two types of outlaws and one type of ship that have nothing to do with them in the game, but actually become three types of mercenaries that refer to them, and they can also be shipped from the home city, I think this actually gives the civilization more of a Maratha element. In addition, two of the three types of ships that replaced European ships are based on the Maratha Navy.

Having said that, I think it’s inevitable that if Indians were to improve their accuracy, they would have a more distinctly Mughal feel in some aspect. But we can still reflect and represent other cultures on the subcontinent, especially the forces that fought against the Mughals, through outlaws, mercenaries, native units and cards. This is a major advantage of AoE3 compared to other games. Similar to the Chinese, they inevitably have a more distinct Qing style, but the mercenaries can still have Iron Trooper, from Koxinga and his Kingdom of Tungning who fought against the Qing.

Stop.

I have stated from the very beginning of this topic that the premise of this topic is not to split the civilization. I also don’t think the split is a change suitable to the current game at all.

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They already have that to most extent. And adding a few unit here and there is no big deal, but having the whole MAIN roster on Mughals is unjustified. On top of that Having Marathas as Outlaws and Mercenary.

IMO a healthy main roster should look like :

  • 40% Mughal Units (Gunpowder, Infantry, artillery),
  • 30% Maratha Units(Fast Inf, Light cav, Navy),
  • 10% British Colonial (Gunpowder Inf, artillery, Navy),
  • 10%Rajput Units (Melee Inf, Melee cav),
    And the rest
  • 10% can be a specially procured units either from card only/ research only/ mercenary/ Outlaw etc.
    These can be Punjabi, Mysorean, Bengali, Axom, Malwa, Hyderabad, others (Urumi, Jat Lancers etc.)

Most people arent, atleast u trying , also Indian History is pretty complex and most people in this forum have NO idea about it. SO ive just summarized in most precise way possible in below maps.

In Chronological order

NOTE : Later british will limit other europeon to coasts cities and trade. And use the notorious “Divide & Conquer” to Rule or Vassalise / Treaty with local Rulers. And then the rest is history.


:100:

What do you mean by cohesive content?

What do y’all think of this?

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Shield is going inside horse body.

Yeah, it’s a shame, the shield is part of the model. Still, I think is a passable error. Now, really the Sowars should ride a horse instead of a camel?

I have made a made a mod fixing that animation. You can find in mod manager.

If we can accept chinacos having bonis vs cav we could have camel Sowars getting bonus vs Cav too. They would be consistent with every camel in the saga. They are too fragile

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