Indians Unique Units

The image takes the manganels as an example but there already is an siege armor tipe.

The idea would be to make them more resistant, and giving them a attack bonus wouldn’t be that helpful, since onagers still out-range them, so without and resistance to them, there is the risk that EA die before they can use their bonus.

Also their purpose is to act as a slow but tanky meatshield while having a bit of damage output, not to kill enemy units, that’s the job for they HC.

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EAs have more than enough HP and Armour, to be able to close in on Onagers.

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Depends on how many onagers, it’s still a unit trained at a castle vs one trained at a SW.
And even if they survive with 10HP, then they can easily die to ES or halbs.

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You also have BBc, if they get such a critical mass of Onagers.

Onagers also are expensive to upgrade and mass, so it evens out more than you would believe.

ES does not counter EAs easily. EAs have way too much Pierce Armour.

@DoctBaghi talking about Siege Damage. Not ANTI-Siege.

Siege-resistant mean they recive less damage from siege. But this cannot be achieve without rebuilding the game. EA have to have tons of meele and pierce armour, and after that, they will need theyr own armour class (not the War Elephant clas, their own Elephant Archer Armour) and after that, all other units from other class than siege have to have bonus damage vs EA Armour-class unit equal to their normal damage.

Anti-Siege damage means something deal bonus damage vs units with siege-armour class. And this is exactly what i propose.

Well, I never sayid that it’s easy, but not impossible either, they have done a similar thing with the letis, and this, combined with a buff on their damage vs standard buildings, would really make the EA unique in my opinion.

It’s not much about balancing the indian, it’s more about giving the EA a role in the game.

ES still deal their full bonus damage, yes for the their 280/330 HP it’s not much, but they still are cost effective.

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Since EA have negative cav archer armour, they take more bonus dmg from skirms.

I remembered seeing a game where one of the players managed to mass EA and owned an archer + onager combo (dunno if there were plumes or longbows) My bet is that he succeeded more because of a WTF effect than because the unit is actually good. As Indian, BBC, hussars and camels are easier ways to snipe siege already.

There is indeed a lot of room for the EA to get buffed without making Indians actually better most of the time.

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Of course, but this will be really nice addition to them, as living, fireing rams. Enemy siege will be of course guarded, probably by halbs, so hussars and camels may have trouble getting this. And BBC is simply expensive and fragile, if enemy will have his own BBC, so all depends on micro. If EA will have bonus vs siege, it will be able to tank few shots and kill onagers and BBC from distance.

The same viper categorised EAs as lowest grade

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This is my “Exalted Edition” mod for Aoe2 DE
I have introduced 5 empires for Indians (5 civs in 1 civ - Mughals, Rajputs, Odias/Gajapatis, Kannadigas, Tamils/Cholas) with several unique units and each with own unique techs and team bonuses.
Rajput Cavalry, Varu (Melee Royal War Elephant) and added specs based on each empire/civilization of Indian Subcontinent.
I think both Rajput cavalry and Varu can be applied to the default Indians of Aoe2 DE (as that is Mughal-Rajput based) for sure to make them historically accurate.

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Indians are way too much overpowered in your mod. I like the fact that you created 5 empires of the Medieval Indians, nice design choices(unit names, techs) but balance is way too much off. I hope you will separate the civs while introducing more if you can. Maybe you can replace the Mesoamerican civs and other civs such as Goths/Celts who are irrelevant to Medieval History for the time being until actual modding support for adding new civs is implemented) Also AI doesn’t train any of the new units in your mod.

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We should have a major EA buff soon now. This is inevitable.

Not only that, In fact, Specifically Castle Age Camel Riders themselves are underpowered.

I wish to see Imperial Camels moved to Saracens. Indians Unique Units
It will fit them so much more better in my opinion. Indians should not be a camel rider civilization.

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can’t we just enjoy aoe2 without redesigning the entire game?


Obviously not.
Some people want perfectly accurate historical representation. Well, until a perfectly accurate Frankish Cavalry charge just deletes their whole army and economy in a single 24 minute battle, because arrows could not really pierce European Renaissance heavy plating…

but they still knocked them from horses which is effective enough in battle

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Not from late Renaissance saddles. You needed Heavy Crossbows or Arquebuses for that.

Late Middle Ages/Renaissance European Heavy Cavalry (Paladins in the game) could only be beaten by Pike and Shot, and most Asian nations did not even have pikes, they had long spears, which is very different.

The only asian civs in the game that actually used pikes in real life, were the Chinese and (paradoxically) the Turks.

I guess that all archers should have a huge bonus vs cavalry to be hystorically accurate. Horses were much easier to hit… so archers were good counter to cavalry…

Hand cannoneer riding an elephant. That would be a BA unique unit.

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It wasn’t meant to be a common mod and especially as 5 empires/civs in 1. I started separating Rajputs and Mughals and later Cholas (with introduction on Chola Temple Wonder) and later eventually ended up with 5 civs.
I am not good at overwriting other civs (so I have done what I can). Just wanted to show the aoe team and others that Indians are composite - that’s all. Mod is not meant/tried to be balanced.
At least they should have made proper Mughal empire (that existed with some Rajput kingdoms as vassals). They simply created ‘Delhi Sultanates’ as original base empire for Indians (with ruler names of both delhi sultanates and few Mughals added). Later they finalized it as Indians saying it is Mughals based one. Neither aoe2 or aoe3 captured Indians with base Mughal empire - only name sake. They better didn’t introduced Indians - that is much better (so I wouldn’t be wasting time on mods :smile:)
The Imperial Camel (of Aoe2 HD) is based on Mameluke dynasty of Delhi sultanates (in North India) and later people started thinking it is the Rajput based unique unit. Eventually all started thinking like that and now the Aoe2 DE campaign shows the Imperial Camel for Rajput only (using Babur unit for Govind Tai). Both Indian Rajputs and Egyptian Mamelukes are desert based and both had camel riders but both preferred and widely used horses and not camels.
Indians didn’t get proper Indian unique unit - no Rajput Cavalry (even if the campaign is Rajput one but shows them as Cavalry Archer which is terribly wrong and completely no knight-line or alternative horse cavalry) or South Indian unique unit (even if the wonder is south indian/chola based). Cholas had several good unique units right from ships(Thirisadai, Dharani) to infantry (Valari, Marine, Urumi etc). Even civilization 4 games properly showcases Cholas in mods.
aoe2 is a terrible wasted implementation or archaic gaming engine with european techtree/technologies as the basis.
So no point in asking aoe team further.