Is AoE4 going to have massive balancing Problems, due to late game economy by Abbasid Dynasty?
Ok so, it happens every time, if RTS try to make economy even a little asymmetrical, it ends messed up where one faction has clear unfair advantage.
So far all factions in previous AoE games had similar economy. Even by AoE3, it is possible to generate all 3 resources for all of the factions.
AoE4 has there a clear big difference= balance break.
Abbasid Dynasty can generate from trade units any other resource.
The thing is, all other factions do generate food, some can generate gold, but not wood or stone.
Sure you can change gold for it, but Abbasid Dynasty don’t have to.
During the beta, it was very easy to beat up other factions, food and gold, don’t have such impact as unlimited wood. With wood, I could build one wave of artillery units after another, rise a massive economy and infrastructure.
The thing is, to have a balanced game either all factions should be able to generate a second trade resource or non. And let guess, by try to balance this asymmetry it will either remain overpowered or nerfed to be not valuable any more.
Given the fact that Age 4 units cost gold + food you should be able to build these until the game ends. Wood can always be bought on the market. You may be onto something, but if this is indeed a balance problem, then its not nearly as problematic as some of the obvious balance problems:
China having no longer starting with 50% more villagers than anyone else
Chinese dynasties removing access to previously unlocked units and buildings
Chinese Landmarks being much worse compared to English and HRE Landmarks
Chinese 2nd Landmarks in the same Age still costing the same price of an Age up while Abbasid techs in the house of wisdom being the cost of usual upgrades
HRE getting 40% gather rate from their first unit for like up to 10 villagers and maybe even more
HRE getting up to 900 infinite gold income from 3 Relics in Age 3 (compare this to Chinese Tax collection…)
English getting a free TC which can be rebuild when going Age 3
English getting insanely cheap trebuchets and units in the form of Wynguard Army in Age 4
HRE being able to have 20% cheaper Age 4 and make rading villagers almost useless since they rebuild at 75% faster speed and -75% cost in Age 4
Abbasids being able to convert any unit with Imams (maybe even siege? I haven’t tested that)
When you play English, HRE and Abbasids all these 3 factions have some sort of “OP” bonus they can use. But when you compare any of these against the Chinese, the Chinese are a joke.
For example having to pay thousands (to be exact 1200 food and 600 coin) of ressources to unlock a Grananary which costs another 250 wood and takes up way too much space to place it properly: 4x4 Farms for a 15% food gather rate bonus is simply not worth it. And losing access to the Chuko Nu Crossbow unit and access to the village building ontop? Thats just a joke. The Dynasty system, apart from the song Dynasty which costs 400f and 200 coin is a huge waste of ressources and the Landmarks are just bad compared to bonuses of other civs.
It’s refreshing to see you complain about something other than graphic.
On a more serious, I think the way the developer approach asymmetry in this game by focusing too much in the economy aspect while kinda neglecting military aspect might not end up well. Asymmetry eco is just as hard to balance, especially with the way the devs give such extreme eco bonuses to each civ.
I think it is highly unlikely any game like this will be balanced at launch. It’ll take a while for the meta to settle and for the most powerful strategies to appear and for changes to happen. As long as the devs are committed to the game I don’t think this is a problem.
AOE2 for example, has been tweaked endlessly. Anyone remember how strong Teuton TCs used to be? And Mangudai used to be far stronger than they are now. And the Huns arabia meta of course. etc etc. I’m sure people can think of other examples for both aoe2 and the other games.
The civ eco bonuses are certainly extreme and we’ll just have to wait and see. I agree this could be very tough to balance, especially for a range of skills. I would not be surprised to see some quite big changes over the first year after release.
All the civs have strong late game eco bonuses. It’s true Abbasids have a few more than others but they also have fewer early game bonuses so they will likely be behind when they start to get these bonuses.
The Chinese are a bit of an exception to this as they were generally a little bit weaker lacking a strong early eco bonus and receiving a big nerf to their unique power unit.
Abbasid get -50% villager cost in Age 1 which pays for itself very quickly. They can produce villagers nonstop with only 2 villagers gathering food, so you just send more villagers on wood and stone to get your 2nd or even 3rd Town Center to make even more use out of your 25 food villagers.
Ontop of it you only need 10 buildings connected until all your villagers gain 10% increased gather rate.
This is much stronger than the English earlygame economy. The english get more farm output but you don’t want to be spending wood on farms early on. How this compares against the HRE is harder to say, but I’m convinced once you get your 2nd TC you will outscale even the HRE - unless the HRE took the Aachen Chapel to boost their entire economy by 40% by having all villagers work inside.