# Is Ethiopia's italian firearms card really effecting culverines? **URL:** \ **Category:** III - Discussion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029 "2023-03-01T19:30:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MechanicBark354](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mechanicbark354/32/74440_2.png) [@MechanicBark354](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MechanicBark354)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/1 "2023-03-01T19:30:36Z")
I tried this card & checked my culverine’s stats but nothing changed Anyone tried this card ? ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/2 "2023-03-01T19:36:44Z")
It’s not supposed to affect Culverins. There’s a negative multiplier for Culverins that cancels out the one for all artillery. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/originalknot717/32/129190_2.png) [@OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OriginalKnot717)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/3 "2023-03-04T03:32:51Z")
Do you think that card is worth using? The sebastopol is a shadow of it’s former self currently very underwhelming. ---
**Author:** ![SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/senorsmite/32/69161_2.png) [@SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SenorSmite)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/4 "2023-03-04T03:35:40Z")
It doesn’t affect the Sebastopol Mortar either. It’s literally a worthless unit. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/originalknot717/32/129190_2.png) [@OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OriginalKnot717)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:03am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/5 "2023-03-04T04:03:57Z")
That’s a shame, at least it’s getting buffed a bit in upcoming patch so it will be better against buildings, a little faster and do more damage to artillery. As it should be for a unit that costs a 1000 res and can only be made 1 at a time. ---
**Author:** ![coffeeco01](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/coffeeco01/32/29258_2.png) [@coffeeco01](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/coffeeco01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/6 "2023-03-04T04:05:45Z")
> [@SenorSmite](#): > > It doesn’t affect the Sebastopol Mortar either. It’s literally a worthless unit. huh probably should raise that as a bug ---
**Author:** ![OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/originalknot717/32/129190_2.png) [@OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OriginalKnot717)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/7 "2023-03-04T04:08:54Z")
it does say all artillery on the card. So it probably should effect it yeah. ---
**Author:** ![SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/senorsmite/32/69161_2.png) [@SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SenorSmite)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/8 "2023-03-04T04:16:07Z")
I’d rather use a regular mortar. A lot more damage for half the price. Same with fortress age falconets. They do more damage than the SM against units lol. ---
**Author:** ![coffeeco01](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/coffeeco01/32/29258_2.png) [@coffeeco01](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/coffeeco01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/9 "2023-03-04T04:20:14Z")
the reasons seems to be that the sebastapol mortar has its own exclusive attack so its not listed in the list of attacks affected by the card Just about every generic attack that other artillery has is affected dont know if its intended or not ---
**Author:** ![OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/originalknot717/32/129190_2.png) [@OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OriginalKnot717)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/10 "2023-03-04T04:23:37Z")
It’s nice to get 1 in age 3 though and whilst the damage vs infantry is similar to a falc it does have a bit more aoe and range, better mobility while fighting and it does quite a bit more damage vs buildings. If the proposed changes are implemented I imagine it will be quite a bit better. ---
**Author:** ![SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/senorsmite/32/69161_2.png) [@SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SenorSmite)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 4:37am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/11 "2023-03-04T04:37:12Z")
Yeah but Euros get 2 falcs. And 1 falc on its own does superior dmg. I don’t think the extra aoe can compete with that. It’s better to use another shipment. SM in age 3 over 30 seconds does 1500 dmg. Falc over 30 seconds does 2250 dmg. ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 5:00am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/12 "2023-03-04T05:00:51Z")
The _Italian Firearms_ is absolutely worth it just for the Lil’ Bombards. Especially if you send the card that makes Mercs cheaper. Sebastopol Mortar is absolute trash in all situations. The buffs in the next patch aren’t even close to enough. Needs x1.5 vs infantry and buildings, x0.33 vs artillery and more range and LoS. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/originalknot717/32/129190_2.png) [@OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OriginalKnot717)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/13 "2023-03-04T05:01:29Z")
Yeah it is quite poor I guess, it’s odd that it’s so expensive and restricted in age 3 to just 1 shipment yet it’s so bad. There doesn’t appear to be many ways to buff it either, you only get a basic arsenal/church so that just gives you more LOS. Apart from that I think the only card that buffs it is the age 4 card that gives +5% HP and makes units heal and the oromo age up tech for +5%HP/Attack. ---
**Author:** ![SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/senorsmite/32/69161_2.png) [@SenorSmite](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SenorSmite)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 5:09am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/14 "2023-03-04T05:09:59Z")
Honestly I think it needs to go beyond that. I view the Heavy Cannon as the gold standard for Age IV artillery. They do 600 dmg vs infantry. The SM is a unique unit and can’t be mass produced in the same way (Ethiopia’s terrible influence generation is another thread entirely). I think the SM should do MORE damage than the Heavy Cannon but should just be slower for balance, especially for its price. ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/15 "2023-03-04T06:03:44Z")
I think 300 dmg x1.5 vs infantry and buildings would be sufficient. Maybe x0.5 vs artillery instead of x0.33. What the SM most needs a big buff to its range. Raising its range from 28 → 32 and LoS from 30 → 36 would be a good start. Usually when I lose a SM it is because it targeted a unit at the edge of its range and ran to the front lines to get in range. I suggested a few buffs to Ethiopia to get them in better shape, but not too focused on the influence generation rate. Moving Jesuit influence back to age 1 and making cannons more accessible were my main points for that. > [@African Reworks and Ethiopia Balance](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/african-reworks-and-ethiopia-balance/225710): > > General African Buffs Artillery Training Paying influence to research Imported Cannons to even get the chance to train cannons for another 500 influence each is practically unachievable in a normal game and needs to be reworked. The latest patch reduces this from 300 to 150, but that’s still not enough. Cannons should be trained/shipped in the manner of the Italian Basilica and available by default. This would eliminate the expensive upfront tech but have the drawback of taking up bandwidth in … ---
**Author:** ![SnowLynx2](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/snowlynx2/32/151736_2.png) [@SnowLynx2](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SnowLynx2)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/16 "2023-03-04T20:23:05Z")
The buffs to the SM are very substantial next patch. For instance in age 3: - It can 2 shot houses where before it needed 3 shots - It can 2 shot walls where before it needed 4 shots. - It can kill a tc 36 seconds faster - It can kill a fort 48 seconds faster Next patch in age 3 it will have the same dps to buildings as 2 falcs while having : - 25% more damage against walls - +2 range meaning it outranges forts - no need to unpack meaning it’s easier to escape culvs - the hp to tank 3 culv shots Of course it is significantly worse vs infantry but I think being better at sieging and having more survivability is a decent tradeoff. Honestly next patch I think it may be the second best age 3 siege shipment in the game after 2 siege elephants. The +0.25 speed also seems like a very strong buff. I think a big issue with the cannon was how long it would take to get to your opponents base so it’s nice to see. > [@M00Z1LLA](#): > > x0.33 vs artillery Since Ethiopia already has some decent soft counters to a 2 falc shipment and easier access to culvs next patch I’m not sure why it should 2 shot falcs in age 3. As it is next patch will be the best is has ever been vs falcs. On launch it would 4 shot a falc with 8 rof. Next patch it will 3 shot a falc with 6 rof. Effectively in the age 3 falc war it is a very tanky but slightly slower flaming arrow. If it gets buffed too much the only counterplay would probably be culvs. > [@SenorSmite](#): > > I view the Heavy Cannon as the gold standard for Age IV artillery. They do 600 dmg vs infantry. Heavy cannons are the only age 4 artillery that does 600 dmg vs infantry. Not even the great bombard does 600 damage to infantry. Not needing to unpack is a very huge benefit. The SM is the only heavy cannon in the game that has this feature. Additionally when you factor in the rof the SM has the same dps as the great bombard in age 4. I think it should be compared more to the flying crow since it is the only other heavy cannon available in age 3. Compared to an age 3 flying crow an age 3 SM has: - +75% hp meaning it can tank an extra culv shot - +10% dps vs infantry - +10% dps vs buildings - +37% dps vs walls - +4 range - no need to unpack I did not check in the pup if the SM no longer has the age 5 +175 siege damage shadow tech but if it still has that shadow tech then it effectively means that in age 5 the SM has 50% more siege than a mortar. That means compared to 2 mortars it has the ability to 1 shot most infantry units at the cost of -25% siege damage and +100 influence cost. That is significantly better than the -50% siege damage it has on the current patch. I sus#### (really I can’t say suspecct???) it is going to be good unit next patch but since I only played 1 Ethiopia game against a real opponent on the pup I will reserve having an opinion on it until I played the next patch a bit on ladder. > [@OriginalKnot717](#): > > Apart from that I think the only card that buffs it is the age 4 card that gives +5% HP and makes units heal and the oromo age up tech for +5%HP/Attack. The smokeless power tech from the Jesuit alliance also gives them +5% attack. ---
**Author:** ![OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/originalknot717/32/129190_2.png) [@OriginalKnot717](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/OriginalKnot717)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/20 "2023-03-05T02:49:20Z")
Great info thanks, I hope it becomes good again now because it should be a very strong unit as you can only ever get 1 in fortress and in industrial they only train 1 by 1 and cost considerably more than a regular mortar which can be made in batches of 5. ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/21 "2023-03-05T05:06:14Z")
> [@SnowLynx2](#): > > next patch I think it may be the second best age 3 siege shipment in the game after 2 siege elephants. Even with all the changes it is still trash. In age 3, 2 falcs do 150% more damage vs buildings and 300% more damage vs infantry, and a SM will definitely lose a falc war. the only edge it has is a little more range and health. > [@SnowLynx2](#): > > Ethiopia already has some decent soft counters to a 2 falc shipment lol, no they don’t. Jav riders were the only reliable option and they’re getting nerfed. > [@SnowLynx2](#): > > Compared to an age 3 flying crow an age 3 SM has: > > - +75% hp meaning it can tank an extra culv shot > - +10% dps vs infantry > - +10% dps vs buildings > - +37% dps vs walls > - +4 range > - no need to unpack Flying Crows can be trained as early as age 2 and can get 2 upgrade cards by age 3 that put them well ahead of SM. I was initially just looking at their age 3 stats so I was overly critical of their range. That aspect actually improves greatly in later ages to 30 against units and 40 against buildings. But even with those improvements when aging up, they are still much worse than just building a falc and a mortar. ---
**Author:** ![coffeeco01](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/coffeeco01/32/29258_2.png) [@coffeeco01](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/coffeeco01)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 5:59am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/22 "2023-03-05T05:59:23Z")
> [@M00Z1LLA](#): > > Flying Crows can be trained as early as age 2 and can get 2 upgrade cards by age 3 that put them well ahead of SM. im sorry but this is a terrible arguement to say that the flying crow is somehow comparable to SM no one in the damn mind would try to make the confucian academy in age 2 or even put in the 2 cards necessary to make it better. atbest you put in 1 and not even for the flying crow, you put it in for the hand mortars Flying crows in age 3 have even less range then falcs. they are extras, not cornerstone untis ---
**Author:** ![M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/m00z1lla/32/104042_2.png) [@M00Z1LLA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/M00Z1LLA)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029/23 "2023-03-05T06:37:37Z")
I’m not the one trying to compare them. Sebastapol Mortars should be massively better than a Flying Crow, yet all it takes is one card to make them the superior unit. [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/is-ethiopias-italian-firearms-card-really-effecting-culverines/226029.md?page=2)