Is it best to postpone the game?

I highly doubt it, in Total War you could always activate the dev camera or remove restrictions via mods with almost no performance impact, so it is clearly a design decision and nothing more.

If that was really the case they would need to implement a proper Level of Detail (LOD) system, there is no excuse in 2021.

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lol, assuming to know the limitations of software you haven’t worked with is pretty bold. They should have well implemented LODs and it should be an easy thing to change the zoom level but that doesn’t mean it is.

What I am trying to say is that we can’t know with certainty how hard it is to fix the zoom level but we can say that it needs to be fixed no matter how much of a technical challenge it might end up being. It’s also a lot easier for management to justify pilling as many resources as possible onto fixing the zoom if the feedback is “fix it no matter what it takes” than “why haven’t you fixed this minor thing it should be easy.” There is then no room for them to justify not fixing it by saying “it isn’t that simple to fix”

I’m just telling you that almost all games have a hidden unrestricted dev camera (without it you can’t create the trailer scenes) and players tend to find out how to activate it, even during betas. In most cases you will see that the default zoom in these games is a design decision made for accessibility and readability, not because of performance.

I thought about engine limitations at first too but changed my mind on this subject later.

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I will not confirm or deny whether this happened In the beta.

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This Is the main problem when you want release the game on integrated Graphic cards. Those card are not designed for gaming.
A next generation game (or i suppose It would had been the original Plan) should be developed for the High specs and than try to support the minimum specs without impact on the game.
The new frontiers for Who wanna play to all game with netbook, television or integrated cards are named Xcloud.

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It was ‘Forgotten Empires’.

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Oh yes, they will release it now matter what. Beta tester and fans posting on forum are basically guaranteed buyers. How many have already preorder the game even if there is no advantage in doing (unless you’re playing aoe2 and don’t already have the DLC)? You can’t even post a critical opinion on Reddit without being downvote to hell by fanboys.

Target audience are those Fornite kids who like cartoonish graphics and trebuchet video. They don’t really care about the same things as fans or AoE2/3 competitive players.

That’s bad for the fans of the serie (but who cares, they’ll buy anyway) and smart business decision.

Lot of franchises are getting the same treatment nowadays

No, they should not. The product (game) overall seems really good. Civs look interesting, graphics look awesome, the game feels familiar but at the same time unique, they’ve incorporated a lot of things from older titles that we know and love, but also definitely included a lot of new ideas that seem fun. As anything else, it is not perfect, not having a Scenario Editor and not having modding capabilities does feel a bit bad, but if they’re going to release it in Q1 of 2022, then I can honestly live with that.

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We are in a situation where they and us are unsure if money should be spent on the project.

They consider launch a half-baked game is going to make more money than actually finish it.
-typical gaming practice look Cyberpunk, Anthem or Crucible

So they launch a half-baked game, to see if people are actually interest into it and to get at least part of investments back, people see half-baked game refund and give it bad reviews.

It’s a very odd modern day business practice, but that’s how things are done these days.

Aoe4: Cheat Codes, Scenario Editor, and Ranked Multiplayer Global Queue Won’t Come at Launch
source

At this point it’s way too late for that. Too big pain in the butt even 6months before release. ATM whether they’d like it or not they have to bite the bullet and hope for the best reception.

Now it probably can be used as an argument when discussing preordering, since that might be a vital part for somebody and them being absent can tip that decision one way or the other.

Having lived through this franchise’s ebbs and flows, I don’t see things to be nearly as dire as perhaps others. I’ve seen lots of players fearing a failure of AoE4 would kill the franchise. Obviously nobody wants to see us take another hit like that and see yet another flagship title fail to launch. But AoE will survive no matter what, and in a few years it’ll be time for another game no matter what.

Meanwhile AoE2 and AoE3 will keep the lights on.

So let them release a half built game with boring civs and insanely hemmed in field of vision.(Assuming the publicly revealed stuff reflects launch.) Let them try to recoup some costs. But most important, please let them get their feet under them so they better understand what this brand is, what it is not, and what it should be. I don’t think AoE4 appears to hit the mark, but that’s likely because it got off on the wrong foot with some very threshold missed decisions.

Lick their wounds and try again. But please let’s stop forgetting the lessons we learned.

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Totally. Even without recent expansions, developers have shown great support for both and I would have no hesitation in recommending their purchase. Even stupid patch previews are exciting, and we’re talking about old ass game that came before some of the IV players were born:
NEXT Patch Is Coming Soon! These Are The Changes - YouTube

Heart breaks after waiting so long so something like this for them to hurt the name of my most favourite series!
It’s like maybe someone out there could have done so well with this like Ensemble Studips did with AOE II and then World’s Edge did with the DE packs. Like how can you release such beautiful packs with such high approval ratings and not translate it into your new game. It makes no sense. You already gave the zoom, the graphics and brought an old game back to life! Just to do none of that in the new game.

It’s like World’s Edge was talking to Relic and was like “all the AOE fans of the past all wanted this and when we gave it to them in DE, they absolutely loved it!!

And relic be like “omg that’s so good. That gives me an idea. Let’s do none of that in the new game? PERFECT! :crazy_face:

But now that it’s attempted, if it does bad then people in the future will be more scared to revisit AOE again and it might kill it. You can only revive decades old legends oh so many times!

Can’t talk about beta, but if that helps - I am sure the game is just fun and solid. IMHO it will be nowhere near DoW III, EE3 or CnC4 quality. I have faith they will support it with content and engine updates and eventually it will be a classic modern RTS :slight_smile:

I’m much more saddened/worried about project management including marketing plan or just general development time and how it’s planned when looking at what’s going on and having game release in less than two months.

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I don’t doubt it will be fun. But will it be fun enough to create long term customers? I can see this as Viper streaming a few games and campaign series, then everyone returning to AOE II DE and AOE III DE. Or shifting their focus onto the most anticipated upgrade to AOM. I’m pretty sure a new AOM after the launch of AOE IV will completely overshadow the game!

I’d probably just play the campaign and then let it rot on my desktop (provided they continue to show their developer rigidity):sweat_smile:

As a non-competitive AoE player I only occasionally play MP, usually jump in every few days to play skirmishes. And of check new stuff- expansions, coop missions, events etc.
For people like that (vast majority) we have to ask what would make them stick with the game for longer.
It’s hard to say, outside of playing campaigns, creating scenarios and AI/coop vs. AI skirmish.

But even these things have to be well made and rich in features. 3made an attempt to give depth for these people with creation of this basic XP system. It had problems, but was cool and shoud’ve been expanded.
You can’t create events all the time. It doesn’t bring money by itself.

I guess having a very rewarding campaign system, with multiple difficulties, medals, reward unlocks, leaderboards, etc. Might sound silly but hey that’s single-player. I don’t think there will be some user content integration, like auto-downloading maps in horde shooters like L4D2 or Killing Floor 2.

Without any progress systems, or thing like civ customization (HC card system in III) I can’t see what I would do after abusing all options for skirmish customization. I’d probably go back to long-term strategies I always have installed, like ANNO games.
In order for somebody to stop playing skirmish in 2De or 3De IV’s skirmish must be at least as good and attractive.

Still- whether it’s good or not most customers don’t stick and move to other games. For them it’s important to provide a lot of interesting gameplay and hint at great campaign stories and features like that. And so far this aspect seems a lil bit too safe.

Not suggesting they should start posting memes on their twitter, often just catching people by the heart with one good blow (like well-made trailer) is enough to appear in the minds of many potential customers.

Like they did*:
CIVILIZATION VI Launch Trailer - YouTube

*yes it’s unfair to mention Civ, even Taliban probably play Civ games and are brand-aware :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I can imagine the intro’s being those golden ghosts with golden string buildings on scenic real life landscape.

Then when you enter the game you see

image

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LOL I swear was just about to write something like ‘I need someone like fair lady Cate Blanchett dressed as noblewoman from Florence stare right into the camera and tell me I need to save Europe, like Sean Bean inspired people to build civilizations, with epic music playing in the background’.

They need to be more aggressive and charismatic with published materials.

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The game won’t be postponed, because unlike actually broken titles, Age IV isn’t broken. It isn’t damaged to any extent that it would warrant such.

The two biggest (high profile) examples in the past half a decade or more that actually got enough feedback at volume so immense it impacted release were Arkham Knight and Cyberpunk 2077.

Are we saying Age IV is like either of these? Not even close.

The biggest issue that most of the community agreeing is the zoom level. That’s it. Everything else is either supported by vastly less people, or is vastly more subjective in approaching any kind of improvements.

Do I think the developers are going to get understandable flak if they don’t find a way to improve zoom offerings? I do.

But I think the importance of everything else will vary massively based on the person evaluating it. It’s easy to get people to agree on “game bad” (or “art bad”, or anything similarly broad). It’s a lot harder to work out a better solution that satisfies more people and is doable with the resources a company has. Of note, delaying the game costs resources. It isn’t free.

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If you can’t finish a game in five years
 you shouldn’t be in the game business.