What about surprise Longswords play on Fortress with petards or rams with 5pa you can effectively ignore TC and Tower until they have Bodkin. You also easily can build a Centurion which gives +10% speed and 25% attack speed with 10 range. Their are two problems with this strategy if your opponent has monks they can use them to convert your longswords or Centurions and also the cost you lack supplies so full Longswords play might be too expensive.
Seems difficult, since castle can act as a military production building.
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Since Gold Shaft Mining is way cheaper now, this tech will be picked over Hand Cart most of the time. And that favors Romans over Slavs.
Unless one bonus is objectively better than other, for example, Goths infantry attack bonus vs building and Burmese direct extra attack, there can be always argument for either of the bonus. Romans bonus starts earlier and more flexible. As well as mathematically better until you are heavily depended on farms.
Math
Assume
Total Farmers = X
Collection Rate of Farmers = F
Total Villagers = V
Collection Rate of Other Villagers = C
Now, Slavs eco gather rate = 1.1FX + C(V-X)
Romans eco gather rate = 1.05FX + 1.05 C(V-X)
If their eco gather rate is equal,
1.1 * # # # + # # # # - X) = 1.05FX + 1.05 C(V-X)
→ 1.1FX - 1.05FX = ########## # ############### → 0.05FX = 0.05C(V-X)
→ FX = C(V-X)
→ FX = CV - CX
→ FX + CX = CV
→ X(C+F) = CV
→ X/V = C/(C+F)
Farmer has the slowest gather rate. So C > F. Assuming Farmer work rate is 85% of other villagers (This one will vary depending on upgrades), we get F = 0.85C
Now, X/V = C/(C+0.85C) = C/1.85C = 1/1.85 = 0.5405
So until your eco has 54% of farmers, Romans eco is better as they can just add extra farmer to catch up Slavs and other villagers will still gather other resources faster than Slavs.
Can’t escape censorship. I hope everyone can still understand the steps.
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Since Gold Shaft Mining is way cheaper now, this tech will be picked over Hand Cart most of the time. And that favors Romans over Slavs.
Do you also have the math for Gold Shaft Mining vs Hand Cart?
I would say there is no way that Hand Cart is not better.
No. That was not the point of discussion.
That depends. And I’d tend to disagree as not only Hand Cart is expensive, it costs 2.2 villagers too. 10% more speed helps a lot against raiding though. And finally gold vs mostly food is hard to compare.
The assumption is that 1F=1G, which may not be true.
Which is same as Malians. And Malians has better eco at that point imho. I guess people is not rushing down to get the armor for Malians as you get +1PA for free anyway. And that’s why Romans MAA looks way stronger than Malians. But in reality Malians MAA is stronger.
W/R vs Game length shows the exact trend.
Now I understand the reason behind your disappointment. 11
Check out my math. I didn’t assume any relative value of any resource. It is all done by collection rate. No matter what is the value between food and gold or food and wood or food and stone, as long as the relative value is same for both Slavs and Romans, Romans can mathematically catch up Slavs farmers (food) and still have more resources (wood, gold, and stone) until 54% of total villagers are farmers.
Edit: I think you are confused with C = Collection rate of other (Non-farmers) villagers. Yes, that’s simplified calculation. I can take all the 4 collection rate and calculate if you want.
I don’t know if Malian eco is better for a M@A all in… Romans get a little less gold and a little less wood, but get a little more food that is imo more important.
The difference with malians and romans M@A is that while both of them have to pay to have 3PA, romans also get 2MA, you can defend against malians maa with vils+archers or scouts without major problems, but romans M@A get 1 dmg from vills and 3 from scouts
I think romans M@A are pretty good against the 2 most popular fuedal units
But, ironically, I think any civ with supplies will mow roman ones with their own M@A
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I’d be interested to see this too, but it has been almost 100% archer defense.
Assuming both have armor researched, a generic supply maa takes 12 hits to kill a Roman maa while it is 9 hits opposite. This can be thought of as Roman maa having 33% more hp, which equals the 33% more food cost, and cheaper when you factor in gold. More importantly, Romans usually have the initiative, meaning more maas on the field.
So far I found tower and walls defend Roman MAAs the best.