Is Sengoku Too Weak Now? Or Should We Rework the Estate Design?

I’ve noticed that Sengoku’s win rate has taken a sharp drop, based on the latest Diamond rank statistics. Of course, I deliberately picked a stat that looks pretty alarming. It’s not this low across all ranks, and it’s still too early to tell how much it will fluctuate after some more time.

I suspect this is related to path dependence. Players are simply used to its original tactic: massing Mounted Samurai as much as possible. This strategy just happened to run straight into the bulk of the recent balance changes, such as the buff to Spearmen.

So, is Sengoku too weak now? Rather than just debating its strength, I think we should focus on tweaking its design.

In previous team games, the Mounted Samurai with a 40% attack speed buff drew a lot of criticism. But did anyone notice that we almost never see players picking any Estate other than Takeda? We basically never see the Castle of the Crow either.

Everyone just goes for Takeda and Sword Hunt Status.

The reason is that the synergy between Mounted Samurai and that 40% attack speed was overwhelmingly strong, while the civ offered almost no strength for its Infantry. Therefore, if Sengoku continues to underperform, I believe it’s necessary to adjust its design to make it a civ with more diverse playstyles.

My proposal is to shift the strength from Sword Hunt Status and Takeda over to the other two Estates. Here is my plan:

  • First, continue to nerf Sword Hunt Status, bringing it down to at least 30%. We could have it increase the Daimyo’s HP as compensation, or we could make it so that the buff doesn’t decrease when the Daimyo dies.

  • Extra: there’s an even bolder proposal, instead of increasing the attack speed buff, Sword Hunt Status could allow the construction of a sixth Estate, while also increasing the Daimyo’s HP and preventing the buff from dropping when the Daimyo dies.

  • Second, the Oda Estate should no longer increase HP, but instead increase the attack speed of Range Units.

  • Third, the Hojo Estate should also stop increasing HP, and instead increase the movement speed of Melee Units.

  • Finally, change the Horse Training Tech to increase Armor or reduce the cost of Yari or something like these. But the cost of the Mounted Samurai can be reverted. The OP element was always Sword Hunt Status; the Mounted Samurai itself isn’t an OP unit, especially when it lacks the block ability.

I know that economic bonuses often have a bigger impact, but here I’m focusing on the viability of Sengoku’s Infantry. So far, we’ve rarely seen this civ focus its efforts on any unit other than the Mounted Samurai, which is clearly not good design.

Perhaps we can circle back to Yatai’s balance later on.

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well, I think like Sengoku is not weak, not even close, it just back to a balance stage.

As you mentioned the path dependence is probably what casing all this but noticed that in the past serval months Sengoku wasn’t getting any critical nerf while having a huge lead in win rate. Designer been giving enough time to see if player trying any other style for Sengoku, but the fact is everyone staying Takeda + Sword Hunt Status

So, I mean this is definitely not the end, but if no body every try playing Oda and Hojo, calling a rework at this point is consider too hurry and a waste of design.

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That makes a lot of sense. I also think we should wait a while to see if any new strategies get developed. I just wanted to put the backup plans out there in advance.