Is the AI getting worse?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
#1

So ocassionally I play some fun matches with low elo friends against the AI, or just watch a match of them playing against the AI, and I have the serious feeling that it got worse than it was in the beginning of 2020.
For example, a friend was playing a Teuton “scorpion rush” against the hard AI. No early agression, nothing. Just going castle age (no proper fast castle build) and attacking the AI with scorpions.
At this time my base would have been raided by 10+ knights earlier last year, however the AI had build maybe two or three knights at that point.

Or yesterday they tried to go full UU elephants (khmer and persians) against medium AI (one of them in maybe is 10th match ever) and did not face more than 20 units attacking them. It does not feel like this would have been possible with previous AI versions.

Did anyone else make similar observations?

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#2

The AI was never good. That is why i dont enjoy playing against the AI.

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#3

Well based on the Viper’s vids the AI did get better. The AI does slightly cheat because it always know how much military units you have (but not what they are) So maybe you and your friends got better at making military early and the lower level AI doesn’t dare attacking you anymore?

#4

Well if you look at SOTL trying the supremely unexpected challenge:

Maybe its the specific civ, but the Incan extreme AI is producing mostly skirmishers against someone producing no military and throwing them into towers. Honestly, booming to imp and vil rushing the enemy shouldnt really work against the extreme AI and im not sure it would have worked in earlier versions of DE. The AI is supposedly weak in early game but getting stronger the longer the match goes. Yet it loses to Spanish villagers being the only offense at 35 minutes… and SOTL is not exactly a high elo player or micro pro

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#5

Oh the AI has always been horribly dumb when it comes to assaulting buildings 11. And maybe it’s programmed to assume villagers are always weak and thus don’t require to change its army composition.

I don’t think the AI did get worse, but there is still so much more room to improve it. It will waste time hitting a random lumber camp while you relocate your villagers elsewere. It will hesitate for eons on what to do with its armies. If you attack it with like 2 scouts it will overeact with 10 spears, and the list goes on.

#6

Yeah, it never was good with buildings, but that you can hold on against the extreme AI for 30 minutes with just two towers? Im pretty sure that hasnt always been the case. Tbh that is so ridiculous that it makes it basically impossible to lose.

#7

Maybe but then I can’t know for sure. Ig you could ask to an AI scripter?

#8

Maybe ur friends are gettin better and destroy the ai much easier? idk just sayin

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#9

If I look at their gameplay, and the “strategies” they are trying it does not appear so.
I remember the AI being a challenge when I started playing, being something that attacks, and manages to kill buildings and villagers, and can defeat you if you dont know what you are doing, not as something that can be almost indefinitely defended with just two towers.

I mean they tried to give the AI different strategies and personalities, so it doesnt just do the same thing every game. I feel like they succeeded with that, but that the original personality is the only one actually being viable at all, and whenever you get any of the new personalities they just arent a challenge anymore even for 800 elo players, or people playing the game for almost the first time.

#10

I think that sotl once talked with the ai dev and he told that the ai interprets diffrent signs diffrent, for example if u move forward woth 2 scouts will make 3 spears but if u go with 3 it will make 10, do u get my point?

#11

It could be that the team overestimated the improvements they made to the best AI’s and overnerfed the weaker versions because of that?

The AI has also always been quite bad against weird plays. A tower rush for instance can be really good against the AI, it will sometimes just retreat to its TC and maybe keep a little eco running to try and get to rams eventually. (Note: that’s an anecdote from the HD AI, but it could very well still be true.)

#12

The AI is really a mixed bag. What it does depends on all the relevant information it has and it’s map. Whether or not it’ll attack early depends on like 9,000 different things, including but not limited to:

  • The AI’s Deer placement (and how many it can lure)
  • Its scouting information about your map (partially dependent on the aforementioned)
  • Its score in comparison to yours (again dependent on both of the aforementioned)
  • Its scouting information about your buildings and their placements
  • The map chosen
  • The size of the map chosen
  • The number of players, AI or otherwise
  • The number of players on each team (and if teams exist)

… and so on. In order to get a really strong feel of how the AI plays, you need to play it a lot because these little variables tweak a ton of things. For one, the AI doesn’t attack with measured force. If it decides it’s going to attack, it will attack with everything or it won’t attack at all. This leads to very passive games when the AI assesses that the player is in a better position and decides to delay practically indefinitely or very aggressive games where they’ll flood units until they die or they win.

Also, the AI is pretty miserable on every difficulty compared to a player who’s got even a semblance of an idea of what they want to do, and that’s not changed since release. I’ll vouche for the fact that the AI has improved dramatically since release, however, as you can see how Viper has regressed against the AI in his multiple-AI challenges. He was on the verge (or just barely beating) 5 AI and now he’s been brought back to 3.

In any case. No, the AI hasn’t gotten worse, the reasons why it’s giving you easier games is complicated, and a small sample size of games won’t give you a good understanding of those factors.

And on the scorpion thing… The AI is horrible against scorpion play. Always has been.