I think so. I thought the old resources rate was better. Now, we can have guys with even stronger feitoria spamming them on diplomacy with over 1000 pop. Not every game is 1v1 on a tiny map of Arabia. The portuguese suck on Arabia, and that’s okay. Not every civ has to be good in Arabia.
The only way to balance diplomacy is to either ban portuguese. Or host the game with a mod that allows everyone to make a feitoria. Or simply ban the feitoria from being made.
The game isn’t balanced around a number of different custom maps. Trying to fix the balance to cater for such a minority as 1000 pop diplomacy map is incredibly self centred.
In the more popular versions of the game centred around 200 pop and obviously ranked games (where the game is actually primarily balanced around) ther feitora still struggles to be useful due to its largely inefficient pop cap making it only useful for late game, which conversely doesn’t work for porta due to their lack of any early mid game eco buff. Which is extremely ironic considering you’re saying its OP while giving no reason to back this up other than some obscure map version.
Lots of players don’t just play ranked. I seen diplomacy get filled in seconds in lobby listing. It can even affect ranked games in bad ways. What the Viper did here seems pretty broken. I think he’s playing 1v1 ranked as well.
The feitoria lead to bombard tower spam and wall spam. Basically a turtle’s dream.
1000 pop? I don’t know that I’ve ever played half that. The sweet spot for me is 200-300, more than that gets pretty crazy. Even with being less pop efficient, I can see Feitorias being OP on any map with 400+ pop, since even most mid level players are not going to be able to optimize their eco with that many units running around. Might as well just camp in a corner and not have to worry about raids or rebuilding lumber camps. But 400+ pop diplo/FFA seems to appeal to a pretty small chunk of the market.
That said, even before the buff, Portuguese were my favorite civ for FFA by far, especially on islands, arena, bf, and in general on closed maps. I haven’t played FFAs (or much at all) since the patch, but I’m a little concerned that the buff will make a Portuguese pick too common on FFA. So even before the patch, Feitoria was very useful in a few situations, and with the buff, it’s definitely not underpowered. I’m not convinced that it should be nerfed, or changed at all, but I definitely think it leans closer to being OP than underpowered at the moment. If anything, I think it more firmly solidifies Portuguese as a fantastic lategame civ, such that they don’t necessarily need the early game buffs that some have been calling for.
I mean viper even said its something that could be alright to make them something but he still doesn’t think they’re good. this is also the best player making this work
Gotta say I love these high pop diplo games, 1k, 2k, unlimited pop cap. Still I don’t feel feitorias need to be given to everyone or banned. You can already from the start see who is portuguese. It’s diplo. You can choose to kill him or ally with him to the end. A portuguese is not able to 1 vs all unless his skill is higher then the rest anyway, at which point being portuguese didn’t matter anyway.
Banning civs is stupid imo anyway. Rather just force everyone to go random civ instead if you got issues with picked civs. Although, playing west euro and getting aztecs does kill immersion… xD
Viper also posted a game where he tries to FI with Feitorias after the patch… and he lost to Steppe lancers 11
The feitoria is always going to be tricky to balance, because it’s one of those concepts that breaks the rules of the game just a bit to keep things interesting, similar to Malay fish traps and, well, Malay harbors (the rule there being that defensive buildings have to cost stone, the rarest resource). I guess the Malay don’t like rules.
Anyway, where was I? These techs that break the mold are often not super useful in practice because their special power comes at a steep cost. In the case of feitoria’s that cost couldn’t be a lot of resources because the point of the thing is that it gives you resources. It couldn’t really be villager time because the point of the thing is producing resources without using villager. So the cost became a big chunk out of your pop space. You’re playing games with some super extraordinary settings, basically removing the pop limit. This removes the extraordinary cost of the feitoria, and that makes them overpowered. Honestly, since you’re playing custom/unranked matches already I’d just let players promise not to use feitoria’s or ban Portugese outright, if this is the one big balance problem that keeps occurring. Because the building is only OP in that less than 1% of matches played that have such a huge pop limit. That’s hardly what the balance of the game should be based on.
My view is that Feitorias cannot be balanced without introducing a build limit proportional to population limit. But if you have to choose between keeping them useful in 1v1’s where stone is limited or keeping them from being OP in large pop diplo games, I’d choose the former every time. If you desire to have a more balanced Feitoria for the latter, then I’d suggest making a mod for that purpose. 1000 pop diplo is basically a mod as it is, so people playing those games should not have too many problems playing with unusual settings.
Its like asking the devs to nerf goths because they are op on 25 pop games.
The feitoria was never good. It is much worse than 20 villagers working.
It’s supposed to be worse. Why should it be better?
Because people never used them in any level of skill. The only time it made sense over vils was in 1v1 when all the gold runs out or in team games with trade when all the stone or wood runs out. Which is pretty rare since most games end before then. And the gold income rate of the feitoria was so bad that you would still die from lack of gold. Right now is a good balance. As we have seen viper use it a few times. When you make 6 or 7 of them meaning you are using 140 pop giving you only 60 pop space for units. You are just barely getting enough income to support your army production of 60 expensive units. So its still not OP but now it actually can be used in a strat that viper showed us. Fast imp feitoria rush…
IMO, the way to fix Feitorias is to make them much more expensive, but also buffing their resource production rates too. Going for one should be roughly equivalent to going for a Wonder, and destroying one should be a really big moment.
Right now, you build like 5 of them and then spam bombard towers towards your enemy while leaving them virtually undefended.
By making them much more expensive it makes it an actual challenge to accumulate enough resources to build one, since normally players never leave that many resources floating, but doing so should be substantially rewarded.
You should be able to look at their strategy and logically deduce, “Oh, they’re going for a Feitoria, I need to pressure them so they’re unable to do so.” Right now you can’t really tell whether or not they’re going for one other than if they rush straight to Imp, and even if they do that, you’re going to have a hard time pressuring them enough to stop them from getting at least some down.