For balance of weak Italian
Condottieri -> castle ages
Elite condottieri -> Imperial ages
based on adjusted specification of condottieri(maybe nerf for castle ages)
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Why exactly should we take a good concept (a unique unit, which has a potentially nice power spike in early imp, but otherwise just serves as a gunpowder counter) and turn it into a unit just like every other unit?
Besides that having an anti gunpowder unit in Castle Age, where the gundpowder it is supposed to counter (the +10 vs infantry bonus of hand cannoneers) doesn’t even exist is a weird idea in itself.
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But condos is supposed to be gunpowder-counter unit. It is awkward to have such unit in castle age while no gunpowder around
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They are advertised as a gunpowder counter, but what they really are is just a 33% faster moving Millitia line that is quick to produce.
They’re not solely designed to “be a gunpowder counter”
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Say hello to Conqs, Jans and Organ guns. Maybe i miss some others as well.
They are a 33% faster moving Militia line units, that is quicker to produce, is more gold intensive, lacks attack bonus against eagles, doesn’t require upgrades, has a faster reload time, is not as good against buildings AND has bonuses against Hand cannoneers.
But apart from that they’re basically just a Militia line unit 
By that logic every infantry unit (except for spears maybe) is just a militia line unit.
Yes, you’re missing something. Those units have no attack bonus vs infantry (which hand cannoneers do have). Condos negate that bonus. Therefore they are mainly designed to counter hand cannoneers. They do also have an attack bonus against gunpowder units, but I’d say the resistance against hand cannoneers is the more important part of them being an “anti gunpowder” unit (just like for Huskarls their pierce armor is way more important than their attack bonus against archers).
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Condos are in a good spot now, Italians should get a non-condo buff perhaps
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Some time ago I proposed something similar, a castle age condo with some weaker stats, that automatically upgrade into the standard condos when reaching castle age, so that they won’t lose their advantage of needing no upgrades.
However, they have been buffed in the recent upgrade, and now they seem more viable. I think that before proposing new changes we should test and see how they work now, because if they are good there is non need of further buffs.
Italians have the need of other bonus, a reduction of the TT for the GC, and some bonus for their standard archer line.
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Condos were nerfed back with patch 5.7 they lost one attack and one pierce armor. This made the unit soo bad it was never seen again… But a nerf was needed back then because fast imp condo was absurlly strong and only civs with good heavy cav could survive.
With the recent buff the unit got both of these nerfs back and further additionally +1 meele armor with passive researched.
I am afraid the meta of aoe2 is spiralling out of control with buffs. What was op back then is now just OK.
I don’t like than an archer upgrade affects infantry, even though from a balance standpoint it’s great, but it’s too inconsistent in game logic.
Assuming passive will stay on condos, I am afraid the additional damage increase was excessive and will make the unit broken once more.
But then broken seems to be the new norm, looking at leitis, keshik, FU konnik, teuton knights, Lithuanians cav with relic, so whatever, just trough in condos for good measure.
Tartars and cumans have UT that affects different units from different building. Plus italians UT it’s historically ACCURATE (which isn’t fundamental, but it’s a good thing) so I don’t see the problem.
Yes but the more armor is locked behind an UT and a castle, which is 650 stone and 200 seconds of building time.
They are still a situational unit, and they are far from impossible to counter.
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So you proposed that condos to be like eagle scout, receiving additional atk upon castle age and cavalry atk bonus. Castle condos do not have gunpowder atk bonus and weaker atk until imperial age, right?
This worths considering for buffing Italians. However, condos is a shared unit. Infantry civ allies may get boosted quite a lot.
Ehm no about the bonus, never mention it, as for the attack it would be that and in general all of his stats.
The main idea was to boost the allies too, since after all it’s a team bonus.
Though, it was long before the idea and then the update of the attack and pavise (not to take credit or brag about it, but I suggested that condos could be affected by pavise some time ago) I think that now they are in a good state.
For now let’s see how the new condos perform, and then eventually we will discuss further buffs or changes.
the condo you speak of was straight out of the rax, and applied to everyone… ergo… the mali condo, the aztec condo, now its only the italian condo that has the +1/1, otherwise the generic condo is still weaker compared to “back then”
the “OP condo” wasnt the italian one… it was all the other ones that had additional buffs on it…
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