There was some talk that the 15% pierce damage of Italians HC would be totally overpowered.
Now that the patch if live, what do you guys think? As it seems to be affected by armor in effect it’s like 1-2 more damage per shot. Pretty underwhelming in my experience.
Isn’t it supposed to be pass-through damage like the scorpion ?
I said it before, Pirotechnia is pretty much underwhelming for that pass-through damage, is more valuable for the Thumb Ring like effect on HC accuracy (going from 75% to 90%) and costing 1150 resources lol, now compare this to the unfairly cheap Shatagni with 800 resources… I mean the comparison isn’t even fair to start with, Shatagni should cost 50% more resources.
Italian HCs are cheap tbh
A bit misleading in the title there.
Only done a bit of play with it so far. When the pass through damage works well it fairly decent. I had 10 hand cannons fire through grouped up skirmishers, I think 5 died at once.
As @FurtherLime7936 pointed out it’s a little expensive. What @TungstenBoar points out probably does not entirely offset the massive cost.
Maybe it should have slightly higher percentage on the pass through or slightly cheaper to get.
Ture, seems I hit enter before pressing “?”
Yeah, but it’s 15% of 17, which is then reduced by pierce armor, meaning against most units the pass through damage will be 1.
And what about the bonus damage vs infantry, 15% too, which ignores regular armour ?
Against Champions with +4 pierce armor the pierce through damage is 4 3 3 4 3 3 4 3 3 4 3 3. At some point it’s 3 three times in a row before going back to 4.
So a little less than 3.33.
The pierce through damage seems to be
( Full damage - Pierce armor ) * 0.15
( 27 - 5 ) * 0.15 = 3.3
So pierce armor does affect the damage, but by far less than you expect.
.
Against +4 Cavalier it’s 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 1 1
1.65 according to the formula
1,55555555556 according to the test
Seems the formula above is correct
Their hand cannoneers were already fully upgraded, discounted, and cost-effectively even defeating Elite Janissaries. Now they gain accuracy and pass-through damage bonus on the top of it.
Yes, it’s overpowered. It’s the textbook definition of power creep.
No unit should even get 3 stacked bonus.
Ask yourself why Spanish or Turks get only one combat bonus to their hand cannoneer while Italian or Hindustani hand cannoneers get multiple bonuses?
Simply power creep.
that kinda makes up for the cost
So, you’ve been waiting a long time for Hindustanis too be nerfed?
I’ve not tested them since patch, but i was wondering if they were going to have friendly fire enabled, due to pass through damage.
So, do they deal damage to your own unit and allies units ?
Turks and Spanish HC are still better than Italians. Burgundians one is even good vs cavalry.
No damage to own or allied units.
Damn, they must be crazy indeed.
Good of you to do the math, but arent we undervaluing just how much even a pass through of 1 would change the damage profile of something that fires as slowly as a handcannoneer when they hit 15+ unit mass?
3 more in a line area behind infantry is ALOT.
Not really, it’s rather mild bonus compared to say Hindustani getting +2 range or Spanish’s just faster fire rate. They are cheaper of course. Surface level not OP.
The damage matters more for infantry as I expected.
When you see a mass of hand cannoneer, it is beyond comprehension that you still send infantry instead of arbalest/cavalier against them.
But you cannot compare civilisations only based on these bonuses.
Spanish have for example good water units, very effective mounted HC (Conquist), good monks with +1 range. They even have paladins, bombard towers.