Italy General Discussion

Those might be very good for a potential Greek revolution, but I see them as less suited for baseline Italy.

How this should work?

That doesn’t sound very balanced… :sweat_smile: imagine being able to double out 3 shipments of papal lancers, or the papal army age 4 shipment, which would be 36 papal guard and 6 papal bombards.

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Seria genial una revolución griega, pero la veo muy copo probable que salga por que podrían ser buenas cartas como referencia.

molino coste de 400w = 350g
plantación 600w = 550g

por eso especifico que no funcione con artillería jajaja, además seria unidades temporales de un lapso de 10seg. después de eso desaparecen. Tardaría 240seg volverlo a lanzar

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For Lombards I propose the following solution.


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The most recent changes in the new PUP for Italy:

That’s a bummer… I liked the albanian company but now basically it’s a shipment of 4 lancers and 3 hussars that cost 1500 resources… yes it still have its use, but I prefer to spam papal lancers at this point and get another card in the deck.

That’s not that big of a deal, the unit needed a nerf, and as Italy you ship the german company more for the jagers than the grenadiers.

Well ok, this is aimed at trety games, ad it should have done months ago, still its not that big of a deal…

This was affecting the whole team? I didn’t know that… but I also discovered that the card affect just muskets, bersaglieri, schiavoni and zouaves, just this 4 units and not all Italian units that have the tag musket or rifle infantry, so something like the revolutionary (which you can get a lot of them through the basilica) or natives like the royal musketeers aren’t affected, which makes me a little bit sad even if those are niche situations…

Still overall it’s not a lot… I get that Italy is in a decent spot but I hoped for some small change on some of its areas…

Also, I’m thinking that the Italians could get a third royal guard upgrade, as the mortars ones is bit too niche…

Yes, a Greek rev for the Ottomans…

Those are the new balance changes for Italy, I believe that the cards are nice, although they don’t really solve their problems, and they still have some weird age up politician rewards.

The new lombards cards are nice overall, it gives you flexibility in the resources, and I can actually replace all of the crates cards with lombard cards, although the new age 2 cards doesn’t convince me.

I was thinking that I could change my BO from:

  • capitalism → Uffizi → monte di pietà → 700 gold


  • capitalism → Uffizi → monte di pietà → sienese finances

But while I can live with 200 less gold, by that time I don’t really need 500 wood (even if I send it as the first age 2 card, by that time I already need that wood) but I need food to get to age 3, so it’ll be a situational card for some pavisier builds.

Sienese financies should either be a wood investment, or they could add an age 1 card that gives a food investment.

The luccan financies is nice, it’s a nice boost to age up to age 4.

The buff to the albanian company are nice too (direct and indirect) and the bersaglieri buff is meh… but welcomed.

I don’t get the pavisier nerf… the nerf to steel bolts was needed, but it’s not like the unit was in a great spot even before…

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The pavisier nerf wasn’t targeted at italy because they’re barely used by them they nerfed steel bolts because of the maltese xbow which needed that card due to the lack of 2 falcs. These cards are nice but it seems a lazy buff rather than just making the lombards better so they give more ROI.


Yeah I know that it’s a nerf aimed at the maltese arbs, but they could have used the opportunity to nerf and then buff the pavisier trying to solve some of their problems.

I mean, more lombards investments is quite nice and if used properly can be really good, but it doesn’t do much for some of Italy problems.

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I think that Italy going to be nerfed in the next patch.

Meh I don’t think so, unless they’ll mistakenly overbuff in this patch I don’t see why buffing for then nerfing it.

They do that many times. They overbuff something and the next patch they nerf it or even overnerf it.

See the case of hackapellit for example and how they have destroyed It after a crazy overbuff.

Italy are majorly underperforming on the current live patch so if anything this is correcting an overnerf.

Italy has a dangerous FI, and now better with the next update.

But I would also like the pavisiers to be stronger or that they could be improved at age 4 and 5.

I am delighted that the Albanian Company is complete again.

Lombards will only be effective because of the new cards that provide an exaggerated amount of resources and not by themselves.

They will continue to be weak in treaty.

I think that this patch is obviously intended to make the Italians be like the British, having a good production of units through shipments.

Although that doesn’t take away the fact that the Italian units are still a bit deficient because of their lack of military upgrades and cards, not being able to make it profitable as the British. I would like an improvement in this aspect.

I would also have loved an improvement to the basilica shipment issue. I would propose that by aging the units increase as well as their cost, eg:
Schiavone and Papal Guard :
+2 units - 3 years
+4 units - 4 years
+6 units - 5 years
Papal Lancer:
+1 - 4 years
+3 - 5 years
Papal Zuavo:
+4 - 5 years

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Maybe a church technology that allows training papal units in the amount u mention. Now, they are useless in treaty like all the civ.

Yeah but that I don’t think that it was intentional, also Italy is hardly over buffed just because of the 2 new cards.

I mean, Italy FI is strong and viable but not really that OP, in the end Italy lack any kind of super power unit with tons of upgrades.

Yeah, it should the effect of the papal guard age up, or some HC card to do so.

Lombards aren’t bad, especially now that they are more flexible, it’s an effective way to exchange resources, although I would like to see:

  • advanced lombards also affect a little bit the training of outlaws and mercs
  • a buff to the usury HC card (maybe having it generate gold like a tavern)

Italy do have some units that have quite a lot of upgrades actually:

  • halbs and pavisiers get tons of upgrades, the main problem is that those are 2 problematic units by themselves
  • bersaglieri get +30% attack, but it’s hard to justify getting 2 age 4 card in the deck just for them, so probably alpine troops should be buffed a little bit.
  • their cav isn’t bad, they have +30% melee attack, and the dragons can also have a reduced RoF.

I believe that papal units overall are fine, it’s a way to let Italy always have infine shipments of units without occupying cards slots in their decks.

I would like though a age 2 HC card that would allow so send some papal guard from the HC, it should be called swiss company, and it should give a number of papal guards and swiss pikes.

It could be, the problem is that it would be strong in non-treaty games…

Maybe it should be an expensive tech inside the capitol, unique to Italy.


Nerf Italy FI, nerf Revnak :wink:

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yeah, agree, or basillica tecnology in age V, but a little bit expensive.

Italy has the worst Euro units in the game:
Italy: 15%hp + 15%damage
France: 15%hp + 15%damage + promotion(¿?)
Spain: 25%hp+ 20%damage + unction(¿?)
England: 50%hp +30% damage
Portugal: 30%hp+ 30%damage

Italy: 15%hp + 30%damage
France: 30%hp + 30%damage + 15%cost
Spain: 30%hp + 30%damage + unction(¿?)
England: 30%hp+30% damage
Portugal: 15%hp + 15%damage

Italy: 15%hp + 15%damage + 2.7ruf
France: 15%hp + 15%damage + 15%cost +(rev. x2 vs cav)
Spain: 15%hp+ 15%damage + unction(¿?)
England: 30%hp+ 30%damage
Portugal: 30%hp +30%damage + 4.0 range

Italy: 45%hp + 0.15 -(pavisier has an extra 20%hp, and no Roman tactics data is taken).
France: 25%hp + 15%damage + 0.1
Spain: 30%hp + 35% damage + unction(¿?)
England: not comparable
Portugal: 25%hp + 25%damage +promotion
Malta: 30%hp + 30%damage + (50hp%cards)

Ranged light infantry with rifle:
Italy: 15%hp + 30%damage
France: 35%hp + 15% damage
Spain: 20% damage + unction(¿?)
England (Ranger): 35%hp +15%damage
Portugal: 30%hp+ 30%damage

Netherlands: 40%hp + 40%damage
France: 10%hp + 0.1 armor + Promotion(¿?).
Portugal: 15%hp + 15% damage
Italy: 30%hp + (1 damage and siege every 12 units = ¿?)

For the damage of some units only the ranged damage is taken, except heavy cavalry.

And I am not taking improvements of the unique units that these civs have and Italy does not, like artillery, special cavalry, grenadiers, etc…


I admire DoctBaghi determination in trying to wrap his head around the papal state civ (italians), and his willingness of using it even with all the design shortcomings… BTW, it seems that in the PUP the Bersagliere got buffed since its negative multi for cav went from 0.5 to 0.6