Yes exactly that’s why tang dynasty did not hold its vast territory for very long. And then Yuan dynasty was not considered a fully Chinese society by many. So definitely Tang dynasty was not as large as Qing in terms of established territory. The largest dynasty in Chinese history has to be Qing followed by Yuan if it is considered Chinese, and then present day PRC.
What the hell is going on in Portugal?
Yes, for AoE 3 we already had 14 civs for the 2 years of the game (AoE 4 is just going to reach 12 civs this year, plus the 4 civ variants)…
It is because at that time it did not exist, it was the kingdom of Galicia and León…
“you must agree with me or you’re not a real fan” continues to be one of the most exhausting takes in existence.
I’ve been playing Age of Empires since 1998, I care what happens to the game. And you seem to need any innovations in the game to serve your fun personally. Let’s add blasters to the game, it will be fun!
And here the author of the topic wants to describe the principles by which the game should exist. Bring everything to a single order.
Loving something (or someone) also means accepting its imperfections… At times, the best thing to do is fly over and keep on lovin’!
Just food for thought, no judgement.
I mean this is a good mindset and all but it isn’t quite the same as loving a person. They are intentionally releasing a mediocre product because recycling existing content saves them money. Pretty unforgiveable for me personally.
You’re not alone 
I’m not sure making an appeal to absurdity helps your attempt at gatekeeping.
This post is not as good as it may look at first glance.
You 're trying to use the scientific method to deliver your opinion as irrefutable facts. This posture compromises your message right from the start. You want to sound academic, but you aren’t in the substance.
Now, to comment on the content.
That doesn’t qualify them as full civ but as a really well done and fitting variant. Don’t pass them off for a civ.
We didn’t need “data sets” to figure that one out, Sherlock. Forgive the sarcasm.
This sounds menacing, which discredits you. What’s on your mind?
Alright the focus on “high-value, conspicuous missing civilizations” but you really made all of this to end with “first and above all the Persians”?!? You want to scientifically alter the Devs’ release schedule to your liking? I mean, you could just have written “Enough with that variants crap, add the Persians already!”. This whole post sounds patronizing in the end.
That’s one way to put it. Or maybe they tried to add something they thought was still deserving, while not breaking the bank. They could have not release the variants (much better for some, even me partially) and save even more money.
That’s true but they have to know how to handle that…
I think it has way more to do with saving money. Be honest, where would any of these “civs” have ranked on your civ wish list? The devs can’t even figure out how to name what they are trying to represent. It feels to me like they are grasping at straws trying to find a way to get 2 civs out of the ones they have already created.
This was during the Reconquista. Iberia was a hodgepodge of different kingdoms until the 14-1500s. Portugal itself was founded in 1139.
They would have ranked 
, meaning, they never were in my list. I didn’t ask for them and I didn’t even expect them.
But since they’re coming anyway I’ll take a chance with them.
I think that’s the best I can do at the moment, while proposing slight changes that could actually make it though. Or big enough to be sold but solve the problem!
the ones who likes aoe 2 but refuse to take account fututre games like aoe 3, aom, aoeo for producing games directly or indirectly like council say everything that they onyl like certain sequel but not in general which makes then only fan to that game but not the series. This is why aoe 2 is considered an bubble itself but not a real fan
Plenty of people like AoE III and not II so much, too.
They’re all still fans. We all are.
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few ones can break their conformoty and play other games and become real fans but mostly don’t which is the loud audience and the reason why aoe 3, aoeo, aom get punished for being different to aoe 2.
This is a good map, because it is real, and because it falls within the timeframe.
All of them are equally good. Because they all satisfy the requirements of reality and timeframe.
The task is to analyze all of them maps as a whole, and not focusing only on raw territory areas and tag-names, but considering a range of civilization characteristics and interconnections instead.
Bahasa means language. If you mean the language of Indonesia, it should be Bahasa Indonesia (not just Bahasa). If you mean the archipelago in general, the proper name is Nusantara, so the people of Nusantara should be called Nusantaran (Indonesian only refer to the inhabitants of Indonesia – Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines are not included).
There is no continuity. Srivijaya is pre-Malay (for this context let’s just say “Malay”, although real Malays did not exist until the founding of Malacca Sultanate and the word Malay before 1400 CE refers to a toponym, a kingdom in Sumatra, not Malay peninsula) while Majapahit is Javanese. There is a time gap between the fall of Srivijaya in 1025 and the Singasari conquest of Sumatra in ca. 1290: what the Javanese kingdom of Singasari attacked was the kingdom of Malayu, not Srivijaya. In my opinion, Malayu has more influence than Srivijaya, its territory being listed in the Zhufanzhi of 1225, while Srivijaya territory was never recorded explicitly. The Tanjore inscription mentioned the Tamil attack on Southeast Asia but apparently, it NEVER STATED that the territories belonged to Srivijaya: The polities attacked seem to be independent of each other.
The Malays and the Javanese are very different people, the information I’ll write will be relevant until the fall of Malacca (1511) and the fall of Majapahit (1527):
Cavalry and elephantry
The Malays almost never used cavalry but used elephants in quite a large quantity, Malacca used elephants against the Portuguese in 1511, and the Aceh kingdom in Sumatra used so many elephants. The Javanese used cavalry since the 12th century, and they became quite good at it during the Majapahit era, even listed as horse supplier for China. The Penataran temple of Java depicted horse archer, unarmored horse rider, and armored horse rider. The Javanese used elephants mainly for the transport of nobles and high-ranking warriors/officers, so not widespread.
Housing
The Malays mainly live on straw houses or even worse, their buildings are mainly made using organic materials such as wood, matting, and split bamboo, raised above the ground on poles 1–4 m high. Some Malays are living in floating houses near their riverine city. The Malays have a storage building made of brick called gedong or gedung (which lends its name to godown), purposely made from solid material so it won’t catch fire. Up to the 10th century the Javanese also lived in houses built on poles, but after that Javanese houses were built closer to the ground with only a small gap between the floor and the foundation or nothing at all. The Javanese used organic material too, but houses using solid walls (stone or brick) are found in archaeological sites, presumably owned by richer residents. They are also depicted in terracotta and temple reliefs and can be found long after in Bali, which is heavily influenced by Majapahit culture. Although they use organic material, the foundation of Javanese houses are made of solid materials (see the link before) about 0.9 to 1.2 m high, and it’s where the family’s belongings are stored.
Fortifications
The Malays used temporary fortifications (stockades) built from log wood or bamboo, and usually only faced 1 to 3 side(s) while the other was open so the defender could retreat, this fortification is called a kubu in Malay (which means palisade or stockade), and only erected in times of war and designed to be readily abandoned. The Javanese has a more permanent fortification for example the kuwu which means a manor, residence, or quarters. It can be walled with short brick walls (similar to those used in Bali in modern times), or using wood in poorer locations.
Armor
The Malays almost never wore armor, even the oval shields were scarce, and only used by officials. After the fall of Malacca, the Portuguese found armor-plated dresses (laudeis de laminas, which would refer to baju lamina). It was unknown whether Malaccan armor-plated dresses were used in battle, only used by the elites and nobilities, or if they were purely ceremonial dresses. Rui de Araújo reported that very few soldiers of the Malaccan army wore armor. The Javanese have a pretty good record about armor, including karambalangan (breastplate), kawaca (variable meaning but can refer to cuirass, chainmail, or jacket), siping-siping (scale armor), and waju rante (chainmail). According to the Dutch scholar Pigeaud, the armor depicted in the Penataran temple was chainmail, but I think it may also be a scale armor (siping-siping). Kidung Rangga Lawe (1334) recorded naval infantry using gandiwa (bow), bedil (gunpowder weapons), shields, towok (javelin), kantar (long shield), and baju rantai (chainmail). Xingcha Shenglan (星槎勝覽) written by Fei Xin ca. 1436 stated that Java (Majapahit) is equipped with armored soldiers and equipment, and it is the center of the Eastern people. Haiguo Guangji (海国广记) and Shuyu zhouzi lu (殊域周咨錄) recorded that Java is vast and densely populated, and their armored soldiers and hand cannons (火銃—huǒ chòng) dominated the Eastern Seas.
Naval and maritime
The Malays prefer to use shallow draught, oared longships similar to the galley, such as lancaran, pangajava, and kelulus. Large shipbuilding industry does not exist in Malacca — their industry is not capable of producing deep-sea ships; only small, light, fast-sailing vessels. This is very different from the Javanese who prefer long-range, deep-draught round ships such as jong and malangbang. The Javanese have built large ships since at least the 2nd century CE. The Malays are mostly short-range sailors who are not accustomed to navigating the ocean, meanwhile the Javanese are long-and very long-range sailors who traded as far as Ghana in Africa, they even mapped the coast of Brazil. The most ubiquitous naval vessel of Malays was the lancaran, while the Javanese used jong as their main vessel. Ghurab and ghali were used more frequently ONLY after the arrival of the Portuguese and Spaniards (1511).
Gunpowder weapons
The Malays acquired gunpowder weapons quite late in the late 15th century when a Sundanese poem recorded that a Malaccan perahu carried bedil (a broad term for gunpowder weapons) in ca. 1470s. But this does not mean they knew how to use it as an effective weapon: in the poem, the bedil was used for signaling the arrival of the perahu, and in 1509 the Malays of Malacca didn’t know why the bullets could kill. The island of Sumatra was probably worse, according to various Portuguese chroniclers, they did not have gunpowder weapons until the arrival of the Europeans and the primary missile weapon was blowgun and bows. The Javanese already knew about gunpowder since the Mongol invasion of 1293, with the earliest mention of bedil being in the Kidung Rangga Lawe of 1334 CE. The Kidung mentioned that bedils were used in the Rangga Lawe rebellion of 1295. The neighboring Sunda was recorded to have bedil (which in this context would refer to hand cannon) and bedil besar (cannon) in 1357, and Bali had master gunners in 1470s. In the early 16th century, the Javanese were deemed as expert gun casters and good artillerymen. The weapons found there include one-pounder cannons, long muskets, spingarde (arquebus), schioppi (hand cannon), Greek fire, guns (cannons), and other fire-works. They are also very sought after as gunners in the Nusantara archipelago. Between 1509 and 1511, Malacca amassed a large number of gunpowder weapons (up to 8000), but these weapons were mostly purchased from the Javanese and Gujarati people.
After the fall of Malacca, Albuquerque compared Malaccan gunfounders favorably with those of Germany, who were then the acknowledged leaders in the manufacture of firearms, and the Malaccan gun carriages were described as unrivaled by any other land, including Portugal. However, he did not state what ethnicity the Malaccan gun founder was. Duarte Barbosa stated that the arquebus-maker of Malacca was Javanese. The Javanese also manufactured their own cannon in Malacca. Anthony Reid argued that the Javanese handled much of the productive work in Malacca before 1511 and in 17th-century Pattani. The Portuguese also captured 3000 of the 5000 muskets which had been furnished from Java.
Before the arrival of the Europeans, the Javanese already produced large arquebus (or musket) and even exported it to Malacca, this weapon is called Java arquebus; it has a good penetrating power but probably very heavy and cumbersome. Portuguese influence after 1513 created a new weapon called istinggar, which is an arquebus with a snap-matchlock mechanism (this mechanism originated from Germany) and was smaller than the Java arquebus. There are people who claimed that Malay or Malaccan istinggar influenced the Japanese gun but this was untrue: The Malay istinggar used a single-leaf spring, meanwhile the Japanese gun used a V-shaped spring, like the Javanese istinggar. The older Java arquebus probably used serpentine or no mechanism at all.
Soldier
The Malays had no professional, trained soldiers: they mustered commoners in times of danger. They also pressed slaves to serve in an expedition. The Javanese already had a salaried standing army during the Majapahit era (or even earlier, recorded in Zhufanzhi of 1225), this is an achievement that only a few SEA kingdoms achieved. Southeast Asian kingdoms, even in the 18th century, usually did not have a professional army. What is called an army is actually common people gathered in times of war. This is an exception for Majapahit: Although they also use levy, Majapahit has a standing army. In fact, most SEA kingdoms used levies.
Aside from differences, there are also similarities between the Malays and the Javanese. Both are mainly infantry-focused, their main weapon was a spear of various lengths, and the small one can be used as a javelin. The famous keris is actually a secondary or tertiary weapon: keris is a dagger with a short reach. Before the 1800s, both people used blowguns with poisonous darts. Before the arrival of the Europeans, both Malays and Javanese cities were usually open, with only the royal compound fortified with walls, and even this was not necessarily encircling (that is, with an unprotected backside). These “open cities” are not limited to them, but virtually almost all Southeast Asian cities adopted this style (except for northern Vietnam which adopted Chinese-style walled cities). Most cities had no wall, except for Majapahit capital which has an encircling great wall over 9 m in height, and Tumasik (Singapura) which has a wood-and-earthen wall facing one direction (the other is covered by natural formation such as dense jungle and hill).
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I mean, they’re not civs; they’re variants. You’re still playing the French. You’re still playing the Chinese. Just with a (significant) twist to make it feel different.
As for “why they’re good”, eh, there’s nothing but “I like” vs. “I don’t like”. Nobody has played them, so what could we reasonably say? I like the concept. I like what I’ve read so far. But I’m an English main who isn’t that good with the other civs, so who knows how much I’ll like the variants or even the new civs?
I liked the Malians when they came out, but I’m not good with them. I haven’t played them much.
I think “laser pistol” is very different from “Joan of Arc carrying a gunpowder weapon” and many folks would be able to realise that, even if they didn’t like the latter