IMO Culv would be too strong;
side note, the tooltip says culv have no setup time? but when you use them…they setup (every so briefly), which makes we question if that delay is longer than Ottoman’s 25% faster setup?? If Culv can’t reliably get off the first shot? you can potentially lose a culv to 2 ottoman springs? kekw
13:20 50% changed to 0%
Beasty stumbled over what he was saying a bit there.
They DO take 50% extra damage from archers still.
They DO NOT take extra damage from things that do bonus damage to ranged units (horsemen and mangonels).
They literally became range spearmen. which is fine.
Basically. Ranged spearmen with extra damage and the ability to repair siege, and without the brace against charges.
Whether or not that makes them good enough, I am not sure. They are a lot more expensive than spearmen so is the range and damage and repairing enough to justify the cost?
Currently with the horseman and mango fixes; Ottomans are almost a direct copy from aoe3; pzivor= shipments; jans= musk; aoe3 ottomans have free vils that train slowly and get upgrades from mosque to speed it up inlcude increase the cap; similar MS give free and age up + bsm gives you speed. Aoe 3 Ottoman is mostly about Jans siege (whether it’s jan abus or jans cannons + spahi shipments) aoe4 ottoman appears to be focus on siege + support (jans).
It’s not a bad copy that has its little twist here and there.
I doubt this will change the way jans play out but we will see.
The actual changes arent much, but the work done does imply that there is intention to make the unit functional. Im satisfied with that for now.
Well obviously there was always the intention to make the unit functional ha. Do some of you actually think they intentionally try to make things useless?
I sort of doubt it as well. But I also think things haven’t been quite figured out. The Mehter is a major force multiplier and probably needs to be part of the Ottoman army, it could be what makes things viable.
Maybe if they can manage to reach their ideal composition of having enough siege to pound any ranged units and jans to protect it then it can be very effective.
tbf it won’t be the first time they left a unit useless. Mangudai and war ele is left. But jans are a replacement unit not an additional unit so they probs won’t treat the same.
Thats what I can’t understand with jan design. Whats the point of making an elite unit siege dependant? You might as well go for trash units and more siege.
Well obviously there was always the intention to make the unit functional ha. Do some of you actually think they intentionally try to make things useless?
I dont think its intentionally done, but the fact is there are some pretty significant black marks in devs unit design portfolio. Cases include the launch naval balance, springald meta, pre rework abbasid, etc. Problems that were glaringly obvious and stayed broken awhile.
In the mini patch during the PUP, they buffed ottos via cheaper buildings with no hint of jan tweaks - I think there plenty reason to be worried that we might have another case like the war elephant.
Y’know on top of the red flag that the launch design of the jan made it all the way through the design process being what it is - implying that devs actually thought it would be usefull in its initial form.
We’re talking about intent. That guy said the change shows there is intention to make the unit functional, as if before the change was made that was not the intention or we could only assume that is the intention after we saw the change.
It is very silly to think that the devs would have the intent of making or leaving something they just created useless. No designer wants part of what they made to just go completely unused. Balance is just a very iterative process and half the time people think something isn’t balanced they are wrong anyway and as the meta shifts things people thought were useless turn out not to be. They also can’t just look at individual units in a vacuum. If Delhi is overperforming then they can’t just straight up buff their unique units without other changes.
Not true both those units are niche and any decent to high level mongol or delhi player will vouche for those unit’s specific utility.
Heck just check the game stats on said high level mains and see for yourself that both these units are still beijg made and utilized. Aoe4world.com
Alas poor beasty. He looked so happy that the +50% ranged damage was going away…only to be told it was about the horsemen and mango bonus damage.
tbf it won’t be the first time they left a unit useless. Mangudai and war ele is left. But jans are a replacement unit not an additional unit so they probs won’t treat the same.
Seems like you get the general idea of what I’m saying more than some. I’m taking it as good news that the janissary wont be sitting around in a functionally useless state for months on end. The immediate attention should, I hope, eventually make the unit viable in some capacity.
Thats what I can’t understand with jan design. Whats the point of making an elite unit siege dependant? You might as well go for trash units and more siege.
By the by, did you know that ribauldequins can do everything jans try to but better? More dps/pop by a wide margin, more hp and armor, benefit from siege works, no range damage amplifier, and has even has a bit more range. They even have a minor splash damage effect.
In less words they ######ate all melee units (and some ranged cav) while being more durable than jans. The standard hc has a bit more range and more speed so it can sorta compete with these, but jans just cant. Putting them infront of great bombards seems like a better baseline for a comp than having anything to do with jans.
I’m telling ya these ppl? If you DO NOT agree with them is must be because YOU just dont get it…smh
Anywho in a siege war either anti siege and or flanking melee (mostly cav) units typically set the tone.
Given ottoman jan + meat delete cav more efficiently than any other combo (rib are the exception but they need superior springalds support to not get sniped), and jans range counters nominally has 5 range or less (longbows and javelin throwers are the exception) which puts the range counter in range of the GB, it means whoever can win the anti siege war will likely set the tone of the fight.
Even though my example is in Imp, i just want to point out ONLY china clocktower siege can compete with otto in age 3 siege wars. However in Imp, only a select few civs can either overpower (culv civs and china clocktower) or out range (rus and mongols) to win the anti siege war of attrition. And only dehli and china* can field siege units faster than Ottomans. If Otto goes with the 60% fast train time landmark otto will get springs out every 19s? Meanwhile standard civ take 30s? Skill for skill resources for resources 19s will outperform 30s (thats a 3 to 2 matchup).
Nevermind that a fully upgraded GB requires 7 shots? To die. AND GB shot will chew a 300+ siege dmg hole in what appears to be a mango size splash? You only need kill 7 HC to have it be an even resources trade.
I dont see any non culv civ trading evenly vs GBs plus springs plus mehter plus 25% buff, cost for cost, skill for skill.
In all fairness its only 1 game and skill for skill demuslim is better than crackedyhere. However if you fast forward towards the final fight you’ll see and HRE Burgave horseman/Maa/spears? Vs spahi/jans… spahi/jans cleaned up the melee comp…
Mind you this is from the guy being quoted over and over on these threads on how much he hates jans? Hmmm…
And there’s vinifrss 2nd in the vidya comments ofc whining about Janissaries and wishing that they had no counters. “Shredded too quick by ranged units”. It’s like complaining that knights suck because spearmen are too good against them.
can janissary take out a knight at 1v1 and knights kill spearman at 1v1 160 resources cost cant die too fast to a trash archer unit they need a health boost for normal it must be 110 and for imperial janissary it need to be 130 health ,20 res expensive strelet better than hand canons no one talks them why?