Japan (Tsukuyomi) feels overtuned in Classical due to unit and hero saturation
Since Japan was added, the Classical Age matchup — especially Tsukuyomi vs Greeks — feels structurally skewed. This isn’t about late-game scaling or Mythic power; it’s about how many answers Japan has in Classical compared to how few Greeks do.
Classical Age: viable unit options
Japan (Classical) — ~5 (OR 6) viable combat lines
Japan effectively has access to five strong, overlapping unit options in Classical:
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Onna-musha — melee hero unit with high damage and a special attack
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Yumi heroes — ranged heroes with very high range and an 8× multiplier vs myth units
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Yumi archers — long range, safe default ranged option
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Samurai — durable frontline infantry
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Yari spearmen — reliable anti-cavalry core
Shortly after, Naginata Riders enter the picture, and they have a tech option that allows them to counter cavalry — removing one of the few remaining Greek pressure tools.
Japan technically has two hero types in Classical, but they are not limited in number. In practice, this leads to hero saturation, not meaningful hero choice: Japan can field multiple melee heroes, multiple ranged heroes, and still support them with standard units and myth units at the same time.
Greeks (Classical) — 3 viable combat lines (4 with god lock)
Greeks, by contrast, are limited to:
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Hoplites
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Toxotes
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HIPPEUS
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+ Achilles and Ajax, hard-capped at two total heroes
With Ares, Greeks can add:
- Hypaspists (god-locked and tech-gated)
Greeks have:
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No ranged hero option in Classical
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Only two heroes total
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No special attacks on heroes in Classical
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Heavy dependence on god choice just to reach basic parity in options
Why this feels fundamentally skewed
This isn’t about one unit being “too strong” — it’s about answer density.
Japan has:
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More viable unit options
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Scalable heroes instead of hard caps
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Ranged hero pressure
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Cavalry that can tech into countering cavalry
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No meaningful tech gates to access these tools
Greeks have:
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Fewer unit answers
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Hard-limited heroes
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No ranged hero pressure
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Myth units that lose value due to hero saturation
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Narrow, rigid compositions
As a result, Japan can answer everything, while Greeks are forced to commit early and hope they guessed correctly.
The psychological impact (and why this matters)
When I queue into Japan, I already feel dread — not because I expect to be outplayed, but because I know my opponent has an answer to every reasonable Classical composition I can field.
That feeling doesn’t exist against other pantheons.
Most matchups are more standardized:
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Clear strengths
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Clear weaknesses
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Clear counterplay
Against Japan, it feels like:
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Heroes counter myth
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Ranged heroes invalidate positioning
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Naginata tech counters cavalry
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New Moon controls tempo on top of all of this
Greeks feel stuck playing a much older, more rigid design, while Japan operates with a modern, flexible toolkit.
If Classical already feels skewed due to unit and hero saturation, Heroic does not reset parity — it amplifies the problem.
1. New Moon is a massive tempo multiplier
Tsukuyomi’s New Moon isn’t just strong — it compresses multiple layers of tempo into a single timing window, accelerating everything Japan already does well:
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Faster unit production
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Faster hero mass
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Faster pressure
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Easier snowballing after early success
New Moon allows Japan to bypass normal trade-offs by simultaneously accelerating tech, production, and unit scaling, often creating a decisive power spike that is difficult to meaningfully contest.
By contrast, Greek god powers in the same window (e.g. Sentinels or Restoration) are defensive, static, and reactive. If I want to counter Samurai in Classical, I’m forced to give up Restoration and invest into a tech just to unlock Hypaspists — while my opponent can simply transition into myth units or leverage New Moon to push their advantage further.
2. Cavalry hero clarity and pierce asymmetry
Japan’s cavalry heroes in Heroic have:
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Very high pierce resistance
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Similar silhouettes to Shoguns
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Poor visual clarity in real fights
This creates a real execution problem: even if you identify the right target, Toxotes struggle to punish them due to pierce resistance. I
By contrast:
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Prodromos, which are explicitly designed as anti-cavalry, have no pierce armour
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This makes them extremely fragile against:
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Yumi
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Ranged heroes
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Any mixed Japanese composition
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Worse still:
- Yari Spearmen hard-counter Prodromos
So the one Greek unit meant to answer cavalry is cleanly answered by a core Japanese unit.
This creates a lopsided interaction: Japan’s cavalry heroes are resilient to their counters, while Greek counters are exceptionally vulnerable.
3. Japan continues to outpace Greeks in unit availability
As the game progresses, Japan continues to gain new tools earlier than Greeks.
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Japan gains Shinobi in Heroic — adding harassment, disruption, and siege utility
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Japan already has strong siege access
Greeks, meanwhile:
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Do not gain comparable pressure tools in Heroic
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Must wait until Mythic Age for Gastraphetoroi to gain meaningful ranged siege pressure
By the time Greeks unlock those tools, Japan has already:
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Dictated tempo
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Forced fights
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Gained map control
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Layered additional hero and unit pressure
Even in Mythic:
- Japan gains Onmyōji, a strong ranged hero
Once again, Japan gains a new answer at each stage, while Greeks are still catching up.
The pattern across ages
The problem is not any single unit or god power.
It’s the pattern:
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Classical: Japan has more viable units and scalable heroes
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Heroic: Japan gains tempo god powers, clearer pressure, and better cavalry resilience
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Mythic: Japan continues to gain new tools while Greeks finally reach parity
Japan feels like it is always one step ahead in design iteration.
Greeks feel like they are constantly reacting with fewer, narrower tools.
Why this makes the matchup unfun (not just difficult)
This is the core issue.
When playing Greeks into Japan:
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You don’t feel outplayed
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You feel out-optioned
It feels like:
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Japan has an answer to everything
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Greeks must commit early and hope the opponent misplays
I’m sure Japan is very fun to play — it has flexibility, power spikes, and strong tempo tools.
But from the Greek side, the matchup feels structurally stacked, which makes it frustrating rather than challenging.
Closing thought
Japan does not need to be “nerfed into the ground”.
But right now:
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They have one too many units
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One too many hero options
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One too many tempo tools per age
That cumulative advantage makes the matchup feel imbalanced and exhausting, not competitive.
For comparison, when I play against Chinese, their Pioneer units are clearly vulnerable. They are their primary hero-equivalent in Classical, they are limited in role, and they have only 12 range — which creates real counterplay. There is an obvious trade-off.
By contrast, Japan’s Yumi hero units have 18 range, no meaningful vulnerability window, and can be massed. On top of that, Japan also has Onna-musha as a second, scalable hero line. What were the devs thinking here???
If ranged hero pressure at this level is acceptable, it raises a broader design question: why do other civilizations with hero-equivalents — like China — not receive similarly flexible tools? Either those units are meant to be limited and vulnerable, or Japan’s hero access is simply out of band.
Summary
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Classical Age
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Japan: ~5 viable unit lines
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Greeks: 3 (or 4 with a god lock)
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Japan’s extra options include scalable heroes, ranged heroes, and tech-based counter pivots
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Greek flexibility requires specific gods and additional tech investment
That’s a structural imbalance, not a matchup quirk.