Jungle bowman doesn't counter musketeer

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Light infantry should be able to beat heavy infantry, equal resources wise, in a ranged shootout. Jungle bowman is the only inca unit that supposedly counter musketeers (which is a unit every one loves, 90% of army at lower level is musketeer)

Obviously with hit and run light infantry should beat heavy infantry, because of longer range, ### ##### # #### counter to heavy infantry, light infantry should beat heavy infantry even without running. Heavy infantry beat heavy cav very hard, and heavy cav counters light infantry very hard, they don’t even have a chance. While light infantry is only a soft counter to heavy infantry, this makes musk+hussar combo so strong, especially after the reduced multiplier light infantry has on cavs.

Jungle bows are an extreme. They are not even a soft counter to musketeer. They costs about the same as a musketeer, but equal number shootout musketeers win with a big portion of hp left. They only start to counter after sending age 3 multiplier card.

Jungle bows 90hp, 20%RR, 15x1.75 damage plus 3 poison

Need 6 shots to kill musketeer

Musketeer 150 hp, no RR, 23 damage

Need 5 shots to kill jungle bowman

You are forced to micro very hard while escape from cannon shots (which inca strugglea lot against). Jungle bowman is not the easiest unit to micro either, with only 16 range and a shooting animation. So when jungle bowman stand there and shoot, it is easy for musketeer to catch up that 4 tile distance, especially fast musketeers like ashigaru/carolean

Jungle bow player has to micro much harder than musk huss falc player. This is imbalance because different amounts of skills required for an even trade.

Jungle bow outrange musketeer by 4, while falconet outrange jungle bow by 10. You inca player never take a good trade.

In comparison, skirmishers outrange musketeer by 8, and outranged by falconet by only 6, and has a better animation. Other 16 range archers are stronger in combat to compensate for the shorter range, like strelet, chu ko nu, cetan/aenna, those guys will wreck musketeer in face to face shooting. Only jungle bowman is weak and at the same time short ranged.

3

thats not a thing in the game, if anything its the opposite you always have to kite.

Xbow will die to musks if you dont kite.

even skirms will die if you dont kite since you can be meleed, its why ashigaru are so strong with 4.5 speed.

2 Likes
4

True, muskets beat LI in melee. In fact they beat quite a lot of things in melee. That’s why i like them.

5

Im not even talking about melee, they should beat musk at range at least. Xbow is not the final form. Euro civ only uses the xbow in transition and in age 3 they uses skirms. But inca has only jungle bows

6

but they do as long as you keep the range advantage, they even have faster speed for that very purpose

Alot of the examples you show like ckn or strelet also dies very easily to muskets. like jungle bowman straight up deals more damage overall and to muskets then strelet. and deals overall the same damage to muskets as the ckn

So if you think those units are fine the Jungle bowman is about the same
also it does 4 poison damange not 3

1 Like
7

jungles are a weird light infantry
low hp but incredible damage output that trades some efficency vs its counters to do more general damage via curarae/poison. also fast. like most inca units, it trades weirdly (like how their spears die to cuirs but can beat musks) and part of inca is making all these units work together.

Generally, most inca units die in a spam and need to synergize. inca bow pike will slaughter musks or almost any heavy infantry in a field and even trade well into musk huss thanks to posionn making them one of the best light infantry vs cav types

3 Likes
8

The 4th poison damage doesn’t matter that much because they have 3 rof…if you test them in editor, jungle bows lose terribly vs musk, while strelet/ckn/cetan/aenna beat musk easily. Equal resources

9

you do know the AI in the editor kinda sucks right?

can you provide a scenario for testing then?

From a simple 1 on 1 fight with no kiting, they trade evenly, which is basically fine

are you sure about that?
cause its the literal difference between 5 shots to kill and 6 shots to kill