this is just a suggestion. i was thinking now with the inca’s nerf i wanted to suggest something to improve the civ of incas… maybe it would be good for this civ to give the movility to their archers, or give them armor or at least attack (i like the most movility) if their archers have a little bit more of speed movement will be a good archer civ… very attractive to play
Incas are already a pretty solid civ when played standard and don’t need any buffs just yet. The change isn’t really going to be a nerf but rather a proper balance change, that irons out bad design in the game.
many pro players said the same… without the vills armor its a pretty standard civ without something great… many friends of mine suggested they sgould do something to this civ or ill be quite useless
Easiest solution is to just not apply the nerf, since it wasn’t based on any balance or game design reasons.
Faster archers are quite dangerous imho, because with good micro you can win against anything in feudal.
@TrophicHater I like your creative thinking. However, Mayans already have that bonus in their unique unit. So, it would be nice to have a little more variety across Meso civs.
Incas have the worst team bonus (faster farms), worst eagles, and no raiding trash in imperial (no Hussar). Any of those could be addressed. For example, a slight reduction in eagle gold cost would target all three weaknesses.
I don’t think its the worse bonus. It just makes you have to save a bit more wood. It changes a build order timing slightly.
Ok. Bottom 5 worst? Turks and Malay team bonuses are pretty bad. Others seem situational.
Malay TB is pretty good on maps that actually have water. Just needing to scout less for your fish saves you a bit of attention. Hard to quantify, because you don’t get any resources or anything, but it’s useful in terms of needing to pay less attention to finding your fish, meaning you can manage something else.
Ahh. I hadn’t thought about being able to see fish. I assumed it just helped against landings and opposition fleets.
The vills still get their anti raiding bonus in Castle Age so the bonus works as intended in my opinion. You can still go for the best tower rush in the game due to -15% less stone on towers AND you have the best tech tree out of all the American civs. They are the only civ in the game with a full barracks, they have really good range and siege options. I believe they are better if played standard because their civ design is actually pretty good.
The vills still get their anti raiding bonus in Castle Age so the bonus works as intended in my opinion.
Do you believe the anti-raiding bonus is significantly useful against knights and crossbows? Due to low villager HP, it seems like the advantage is really only practical against scouts and archers in Feudal.
And yet, they aren’t picked by pros. In the Two Pools, they were forced on the opposition multiple times as a ‘bad’ civ. Nicov has been quoted in these threads as thinking the loss of villager upgrades is a good change, and yet he lost the Two Pools game where he played Incas. It just doesn’t seem like real world results bear out theoretical opinion that Incas are decent.
Giving them a bonus for their archers feels a little bland. There are already very many archer civs, and from the American civs, mayans take that place. I’d like to see them become something more of a building-oriented civ, because we don’t have many of those, only Byzantines really. Maybe give their buildings some kind of defensive bonus. Incas are a really solid civ that just misses something for them to stand out once villrushing won’t be a thing anymore. I personally never villrush with them, instead I either go castle drop or secure my base with 3 towers (make that stone discount work!), which with the tanky villagers practically makes your eco unraidable. Generally though I think they would still do fine without a buff, many people just never played them ‘normally’ so their ‘standard’ meta isn’t as well explored.
Their standard meta in 1v1 is just not as good as other meso civs. With meso civs you basically want to win as fast as possible, because late-game you can get raided to death (hussar) but can not do the same (no hussar). So both Aztecs and Mayans have very powerful stuff for mid-game. Incas have their very powerful stuff in Feudal Age/Early Castle.
In team games, the civ is still OK, mass Kamayuks can absolutely nuke cavalry (except for Cataphracts) in any engagement, but the lack of early vill rush will still make it a less likely pick than it is now.
Inca Vill with Chain Mail is able to withstand one more hit from Knight with Iron Casting or Forging - what is 5 hits in place of 4 - 20% more time. He can survive even one more hit from unupgraded Knight.
In case of Crossbow, difference is even bigger. Inca Vill with Chain has 4 Pierce Armor, what mean XBow with just Fletching deals 2 (!) dmg for them, and with Bodkin - 3 dmg. What mean Inca Vill can survive 14 shots whit Bodkin and 20 with just Fletching. Standard VIll can survive 8 and 10 shots respectivly.
Stats say otherwise. Incas constantly, during last two years, perform better than both Aztecs and Mayans on all levels (losing to Mayans only on the highest level) and are constanly in top 10 Civs, and very often in top 5.
i think a very good and interesting buff for incas would be to make the blacksmith upgrades affect villagers starting in feudal age instead of in castle age. The good thing about that is, we already know it wouldn’t be OP, because it has been playtested a lot and it turns out, franks still consistently have a higher winrate.
A balance change? bad game design? this that has been in the game since the release of the incas in 2013? 11 11 11
You cant remove the most representative bonus of a civilization and call it a balance change, its a total disaster! Must be hard to be part of the guys balancing the game
Incas, just like the Aztecs, have very minor bonuses for their archer line and eagles are useless in team games, so of course eagle civs are given to the enemy team. Also who were these games played against?
Eh. They did it with obsidian arrows and it was a very good balance change. Getting rid of a “representative bonus” when it is bad for the game is a good change. Incas have more going on for them than cheesing the opponent. I feel many of the haters are afraid to lose their precious pixel points they got by eaglerly cheesing their opponent. I feel like this discussion is done nontheless, the change is likely going to get pushed through so it doesn’t matter if we like it or not.
devs really listening to the community <3 /s
Pretty sure they are listening. There have been lots of posts about how frustrating Inca tower rush is and now they are adressing it. All the complaints about the change are very likely a loud minority and many players are vocal about how they like the change.
If we remove everything that a portion of players find frustrating, then we might as well make medieval sim city.