[just for fun] Predictions on the new civs strengths and playstyles

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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This thread is to exchange our impressions on the bonusses of the new civs pre release. Most of us will probably be wrong on most of it. However, this should stop us from sharing our opinions.

General civ overviews

Danes:

Danes will be a mediocre civ on non-closed, non-water maps. They basically need to make their building destruction bonus work, but the opportunities for that will be limited when the opponent knows about it. Even on closed maps they might only be solid, as their monks are just ok and they lack BBC. They have good military options, however I don’t think they will be exceptionally good, as many good closed map civs have the tools to completely shut them off. Exception might be Black Forest TGs, where they will possibly be contending with Celts. In general I think Danes look way better on paper than they will actually perform. Though they in theory have strong eco and good options, extremely good Siege to close games. They miss unfortunately that one crticial edge to get themselves in the positions where they can make all that work. They would need to focus and commit on one thing at once with subotpimal timings which will allow opponents to find solutions in the majority of games.

Saxons

Saxons will be a good Arabia civ. Possibly falling off on really open maps, but their openers and timings will make them competitive on the highest level. They might now not be the immediately broken civ many of us feared them to become there, but they will still be very dangerous. On Arena they might even climb very high, possibly even become the top civ. As they will have a strat that I don’t see any counter agains currently. With their camp bonus they will have an amazing FC timing, a huge initiative on the relic fight. And the Hearth Troop transition will be a key element in securing the middle whilst preparing the classic Arb powerspike. Funnily, though it will be amazing I don’t see them needing Shield Wall a lot tt close a game. The lack of BBC and the general civ design is indication for me, that they generally will try to win games with their powerspikes rather than with a flood of lategame army..

Varangians

Varangians wil be a top contender for Arabia. Yes I know that many are doubting that. But here’s my reason: The gold bonus is big enough that it allows several very different application which all are dangerous. Phosphoru, Drush (into Scouts), MAA Rush, bloodlines rush. Just to name a few. Their bloodlines bonus is also one of the strongest open map bonusses in the game. Even if it’s not cheap to get bloodlines, the effect is massive. And the scrush is then followed up with top tier Knights, Mounted Xbows, Jarls… All the good stuff. Yes, their eco won’t be the best, but with these timings they will be dictating the game, being able to adjust to the opponents answers and get a seizable lead they can snowball to victory. On closed maps though they will ofc struggle a bit. Yes, their FC is solid, but I don’t see stuff like the Jarls offering a lot there. Better Bloodlines doesn’t help there as much aswell. That’s ofc not as hard to call, but very obvious.

At a later time I intend to talk a bit more in depth about stuff like opening strats, the new units utilty, UTs and so on.

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My own impressions (some of them quite different from OP), which are subject to change.

Danes have an incredibly powerful eco bonus, one that will make them amazing on open maps. It’s great for MAA and scout rushes, while their archer rushes won’t be anything special. Building destruction bonus is handy, but I don’t think they’ll depend on it. If they are destroying buildings early on though, it will easily snowball into a victory. I expect Hamask to be a very strong tech, on par with Garland wars. If the game goes to imp, and they aren’t against an opponent with BBCs, then siege onagers will often show up due to the gold discount and their eco bonus making food much more accessible (same goes for team games, especially if an ally can cover their weakness to BBCs). On closed maps, I think their eco bonus will carry them (5% extra food is really good for a boom). Hybrid maps will be pretty good for them with the extra food from fish, but I think their navy will be somewhat dependent on hit and run tactics to be anything special (and longships aren’t cheap). Water maps may be good if the player can pull off hit and run tactics, but I don’t think they’ll do well against top naval civs. And their early game on water maps will be meh (they might be a bit faster to Feudal, and might get away with one less vil on food, but extra food doesn’t help get ships out)

So in summary: Carried by their eco bonus and good for pretty much any type of map. Navy isn’t anything special though (good but not top tier).

Saxons:

Their eco bonus will be great for open maps, allowing them to play aggressively (including both Feudal rushes and FC UU strategies). They’ll also be perfectly happy playing more defensively with 3TCs into a castle (or 4 TCs). On closed maps, I think they’ll often go for a 3TC boom and then play defensively until they can get a castle up (or a 4th TC if the opponent decides not to attack). Shield wall will probably be expensive to use due to the unit mass requirement, especially for Varangian guards and Hearth troops. However, once it is running, they’ll be pretty hard to beat without siege units. Halbs will remain vulnerable to anything ranged, but once massed they’ll be a fair bit less vulnerable than they normally are (not that I expect ranged units to be a problem for them). And Saxon monks will be a strong way to guard against siege (and generally strong). But they don’t need to go infantry, as their archery range is pretty solid too. They’ll avoid cav, though their cavalry will be perfectly viable for 1TC castle age. Their water early game is pretty close to generic though, so they won’t be all that great on water/hybrid maps.

Summary: good open maps, great closed maps, okay on hybrid maps and meh on water maps.

Varangians:

On open maps, they’ll be perfectly happy opening with scouts, MAAs, or archers, with each being solid. Their scout play will be amazing with high investment, but lacking a food bonus will likely hold it back. That said, if an opponent cannot (or does not) wall, then 75 HP scouts will dominate everything else in an extended Feudal age (except camel scouts) and could cause problems for many castle age opponents as well. If an opponent does wall up though, then bloodline scouts will be an overinvestment. On closed maps, they’ll skip the mining camp before castle age, which will save them 100 wood pretty consistently. They’ll also have strong knights (that do unusually well against spear units) and Varangian guards. And their UU will be quite strong as well (basically like a mameluke), though its food cost will hinder FC Jarl strats. But cavalry tend not to be able to make great use of their mobility on closed maps, so I expect Varangian guards will often be their unit of choice for closed maps. Varangians will be great on hybrid/water maps, as the gold trickle will help any early naval combat (and later on too if they can keep their fishing ships alive). And later on, faster attacking longships and a full naval tech tree will give them plenty of options.

Summary: plenty of great openings for open maps, but their scouts are only devastating for opponents who won’t/can’t wall (and a noob trap against players who wall up). Closed maps they’ll hold their own between their eco bonus trivializing the gold cost for castle age and their strong military units, but they won’t be top tier. Strong naval/hybrid civ, and probably good enough to compete with top naval civs.

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I agree with almost everything. The disagreements are following -

Danes = I think they will perform just as they are on paper. They are the only civ with farm bonus and TR. This means they can comfortably play full on Xbow in Castle age and have an earlier Imperial age up time.

Varangians = I think none of that are good enough to be a top contender in Arabia. You need food bonus, not gold bonus to be top tier in Arabia. The 130 extra gold way less than Ethiopians or Dravidians 200 extra resource. And those 2 are as best mediocre in Arabia. Sure these 2 don’t have even bloodline. But playing scout is food consuming which Varangians with their small gold eco can’t sustain both sufficient production and good castle age timing. The best option is either all in Feudal Scout without building a mining camp on gold or a Drush into sell the gold to market to rush Castle Age imo.