Kamayuks are a bit OP now

I just watched MikeEmpires’ two total resources Kamayuk videos back to back: first, the old one, then the new one with the update.

Here’s the new one:

And here’s the old one:

Most notably, as far as I can tell, every single battle that the Kamayuk wins in the new one is decisive. And some results even flip, most notably against the Berserk and the Karambit Warrior.

I think the new food discount makes Kamayuks too strong. They absolutely wreck every cavalry unit except Cataphracts and trade cost effectively against nearly all infantry. Archer units would include micro under normal circumstances, so they’re a bit harder to judge.

The Incas are most definitely an S-tier civ now, and it’s entirely because of their new bonus.

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These videos are largely meaningless. They do not counter in rushes and raids. Rather than nerf them directly, just make a civ that counters Incas. If necessary nerd them, but be cautious.

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Inca still lack hussar, lack cav archer, and camel completely, so late game can’t use a trash unit to raid

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Imho Incas received a bit of and overbuff. They were bland but not weak previously, and now are much stronger. I think the food discount should be lowered by 5% each Age, to top at 25% in imp

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The videos are mostly ‘for fun’ videos and largely ignore any realistic practises, only giving some hint of a verdict on how well a unit does against another. This also puts ranged units at a heavy disadvantage, as none of the fights are micro-ed (and several other larger scale fights in his videos are even worse).

Kamayuk is a unit that specifically benefits from larger fights, so more numbers would mean they take much better fights overall. Even in the old patch, if you simply took a larger resource benchmark, Kamayuks would dominate as they’ll be able to fight in a phalanx formation much better than in say, a 15 v 15 battle. Kamayuks are relatively unimpressive in 15v15 fights, but make it a 40v40 and the results can flip even on old patch.

All of this is disregarding that Kamayuks still retain their old weaknesses of Siege and Gunpowder, or a simply high melee armor non-cavalry unit. IMO, the unit is balanced, but now there might actually be a reason to beeline a Castle to make them on more open maps. But even then, they’re going to be much weaker against Crossbows in Castle Age, as they won’t have Fabric Shields before Imperial.

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Yes it is kind of like Druzhina from Slavs

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Kamayuks have gotten a great buff and despite being a castle unit, can be used often with Incas as an alternative to pike-eagle play. That being said, its just a huge overstatement to call it OP.

These videos are just fictitious. In game you don’t fight this way and unique unit’s strength depends on how usable they are in the mid or late game, where they stand wrt civ’s tech tree and cost vs longevity for melee units. Kamayuks are quite good, versatile and more cost effective now but Incas can just go for much easier alternative like eagles-halbs or eagles-slingers and skip the need for too many castles.

Even if this were to be true, it won’t be because of Kamayuks. Cheaper eagles when facing their meso counterparts, cheaper pikes/skirms against other civs will be the main cause.
Personally, I think they will be A-tier civ. The stats for the next few months might be inflated for Incas due to players trying out the recently buffed infantry civs and units a lot more often. But eventually it might end up a top-15, maybe even a top-10 but certainly not a top-5 civ for Arabia.

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Incas were already favoured against other Meso civs because of Slingers completely shutting down any Eagle play anyway.

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Definitely not before this patch. Those civs had much better eco and were much faster to castle age and thereby had a significant momentum advantage.

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I don’t know if I’m using aoepulse wrong, but Incas have a positive winrate against other Meso civs (1500 1v1, higher ratings get a bit weird since way fewer games).

I also wouldn’t really say they’re much faster to Castle Age.

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Kamayuks are, if used as intended, a prime target to scorpions and mangonels.

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in BF inca is very weak mango can scorp shots with champions in front inca has no answer to that at all. auto lose on closed maps

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In BF meso civs are very weak in general. With the new buffs, Incas are actually selected more, just below Aztecs when comparing Meso civs.

I’d say Kamayuks are specifically a very good power unit in some situations/match-ups, as they completely shut down enemy cavalry. You just have to get support from teammates to deal with gunpowder and/or siege.

FWIW Heavy Scorpions are no problem for Incas, since they get Siege Engineers, Siege Rams and Onagers. Even usable Monks, though that dies to any civ with Atonement.

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I think it should be a flat 20%

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Pre-patch incas themselves had like 1% play rate. So obviously number of games would be an issue. But which patches did you check for? I usually check 1700+ ratings from DLC release. Its 49% vs Aztecs and 48% vs mayans for Incas. About the same for 1500+ too. Its only 200 games each, so not a strong stat. Maybe they did well but imo, it felt like Slingers alone might not have been sufficient to balance their weak early game.

this I can confidently say they would. Aztec farms are about 10% faster pre-wheelbarrow, they also get 50 extra gold, Mayans get an extra vill and 300 extra food from gaia. Whereas incas just get 1 extra lama and maybe save some houses if you’re not walling with houses. Easily be slower by a minute in the previous patches.

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Was confused a little bit with the patch selection, but I now added all patches since Dynasties release, we get (at 1700+ 1v1) Incas win with 51.8% vs Mayans and 49.67% vs Aztecs. Generally it seems like Aztecs pose a bigger problem for them anyway, depending on the settings used, while Mayans were almost always countered (and the fewer the games got the worse for Mayans it got).

Bring it to 1600+ 1v1 it’s 51% winrate vs both (and worse when lowering to 1500+, yay for contradiction). I suppose I just had too few patches selected initially, and I think I only had selected one single patch, not like… all of them when I want to observe the entire period since Dynasties released?

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that would make it even stronger in early game tough than my suggestion. i think if it has to be a flat fixed number it should be like 15%, less than koreans wood discount since food is a better res than wood to have a discount with

that sayd, i would love many more civs to get the incas treatment. we have seen plenty of “not bad” civs getting much better and much more fun to play in the last few patches, like portuguese, and now incas and malians for example, i would like this treatment for other civs as well honestly

Usually they are but now we can compare them before and after the patch.

We would need to compare them a video feom a different unic unit from that time and now with no changes before oatches to take in account pathing issues, and that would be science.

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I think 20% would be balanced and would also overlaps less with the Gurjara UT

Also flat bonuses are prettier

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I agree they are ridiculously OP. I had fully upgraded Japanese Arbalest and Champions with Gambesons and full upgrades and they got SHREDDED by full elite Kamayuks + about 20 skirms. How is FU Champion + 33% faster attack speed as Japanese + Gambesons not a hard counter to what should essentially be a glorified halb?