Karambit buff

To be frank, I’m not very familiar with the civ, but watching them fight and experiencing fighting them, I’d buff the Karambit warrior a small margin to at least help a full hoard trade somewhat evenly -

To start out, and this is general guessing what kind of buff may be suitable, you guys can make your own suggestions too here

+1/2/3 attack
+1 melee armor
+15hp

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The’re fine no need for buffs

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Okay, just making sure

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Karambits need a buff, they are useless.

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And we’re off to the races!
Place your bets ladies and gentlemen~ :wink:

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Totally agree.

Ive literally been thinking about it the last few days and been trying to use them in a number of matches.

Was going to post a request for anyone who’s actually managed to use them since this last buff. I think the -5f wasn’t enough by a long shot.

Because they’re so cheap and only take 0.5 pop, any buff is magnified exponentially. Eg compare the effect of a 5hp buff on a champ vs on an elephant.

I think they should get +1 attack. And maybe as part of the elite upgrade their cost goes down by - 5g. The fact they cost the same gold as a Burmese, Teuton, viking, japanese or Celt champ is a bit disappointing to say the least. (all who are vastly superior) and actually more gold than a goth champ…

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Can’t we just get back the old karambit? It was not that OP imo

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They kind of work when you don’t have the time to upgrade from militia up to 2Hswords, but need infantry fast. Case study: I did a yolo elephanto rush and triggered two of my opponents, one of which was Goths, into spamming huskarls+halbs, so I needed a counter fast. Now I’m not going to pretend it’s super consistent (on one side, it was before the buff, but on the other side, one of my allies took advantage of the distraction to absolutely destroy the opposition and hard carry) but at least there’s that.

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i remember that one game agaisnt Persian trash the Karambits were able to stop the advance but i lost the battle:(

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Karambit are indeed kind of good at swarming archers (and they must be more cost efficient than their cavaliers to do so 11)

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Karambit warrior is a typical example ‘quantity over quality’. This is the theme strategy of Malay. (eg. weaker but cheaper battle elephants and trash 2HS). If you improve their quality, their quantity can magnify the effects a lot. I would rather prefer a cost reduction. But this may not be necessary.

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honestly tho i think Karambit(coin) warriors are a bit underwhelming and 1 attack wouldt hurt that much i would rather give it to the imp karambit not the castle and reduce the food cost a bit like 20 food instead of 25 i think then it would be fine the quality over quantity thing is correct since they have an ridicolous Creation time especially with Conscription

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Gonna run the sim. Interested to see how bad karambits are against halbs… Wonder how they’ll fair… Of course the gold cost will ruin them. But wondering on a map like gold rush if they might be half viable…

Karambits used to be nightmarish. I remember a game in HD where one player stabilized against mass eagle raids by just spamming karambits out of castles. And then sending the karambits to raid them in return, winning entirely off of the strength of it, and this is off the back foot, maybe two castles max.

Take into account just how important rapid creation can be. Having some units now is sometimes priceless. Karambits, due to their low cost and fast creation speed, are endlessly spammable, so to speak. They don’t need to be super strong to have a place in games as an emergency defense unit against raiding, when you have fortifications to support them.

I think they’re fine. They can stop players from thinking about an early siege push against a Malay player with a Castle without deploying a single Karambit. And if the pushing player wants to take the risk anyway, they might find their siege/monks/pikes quickly disappearing under a Karambit swarm before learning about what happens with too early of a siege push vs. Malay players with a Castle. Karambits can be okay against the archer line too. Not great, but okay. Ironically I’ve seen Elite Skirmishers perform better against Karambits than the archer line due to the Skirmisher costing fewer resources than archers while having about the same effectiveness as archers vs. Karambits due to the Karambit’s squishyness.

Overall, the Karambit’s use is in rushing gold units that are weak to melee combat. And it comes with a creation time that is fast enough to make switching into it easy, especially if Malay cavalry is already in play due to the Malay player probably already having Forging/Iron Casting.

Karambits are definitely not a type of unit which deserves a buff. The case is rather that it is very hard to play efficiently with. If you have 5 castles and can maintain the karambit spam (which actually requires a big economy because your units will die fast), at some point you can outswarm your oppenet, unless he uses paladin, elite battle elephant or some really population heavy unit, backed with as decent economy as yours. These guys can straight murder castles, buildings and all kind of units once it goes out of controll. With karambits you don’t play like with traditional units, if you want to have cost effective fights you must keep spamming and INSANTLY backing up your units, because once the number of karambits gets a bit lower you’ll suffer from very bad fights. I’ve tested the new karambits several times since the food cost decrease and they both work in 1v1 and in teamgames in a decent amount of times.

People underestimate karambit swarm strength. 3v1 karambits trade equally vs a group of post imp cavaliers. What holds karambits back is their creation time. Otherwise they’d trade cost effectively vs everything but paladin and some UUs. Now they work as a support unit, just like melee UUs tend to do.

No they don’t. Run the sim. You need almost 4:1 and even then you’re now using a lot more pop than the opponent. What does the opponent have to fill that pop space?

This works with almost every unit in the game. You simply out eco’d the enemy. Also 5 castles? Wth kind of game is that?

For example 15g is the same price as Burmese champs, we could make the exact same argument for them. Its more expensive than a goth champ, the argument is even more relevant…

Very EZ considering malay has no eco bonus in that regards. .

Archers have vastly superior dps and no min range, it’s like saying “i saw pikes perform better vs champs because they don’t cost gold”

You underestimate the karambit swarm strenght.

I did test it vs cavaliers before posting. a group of 20 v 60 would go either way depending on luck.

4v1 isn’t equal. It is an easy win for karambits.

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Franks dont have kamayuks