Khmer have a 13 games win streak in Round of 8s of recent major tournaments

I thought I will see lots of posts complaining about their farming bonus. Maybe that one has been beaten several times already.

I don’t really have a particular nerf in mind atm, so I will wait and see how it is going to be addressed.

That one is to provide a more rounded civ status by reflecting the win rate across all skill levels. I can see arguments that balance should only be designed around top 100 players, but small sample size and the reality of those players having way above most people’s skill level makes balancing kinda tunnel visioned. But that’s just me.

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And vills dont carry the food. So if you get raided, you can lose vills but not food, unlike every other civilization in the game.

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Keep in mind khmer are undefeated lately in round of 8 is super niche, they aren’t undefeated in finals or semis. They don’t need to be super nerfed. Khmer in tournaments are frequently picked like 4-6th, not like britons aztecs vikings mayans banned every tournament

from what i can see they are.

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The fact that khmer are rarely banned and usually a middling pick in tournaments in late rounds indicate they aren’t overpowered, 13 game winstreak isnt a lot. They also lost the only game that wasn’t a mirror in top 8 at hidden cup 3 late march, and went 2-2 at red bull wololo in early may. Also keep in mind 11 out of the 13 games that they won was on the player that one the bo3/5/whatever, sometimes 3-0

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Totally agree, after i saw what happened to Yo in last game vs Khmer, i fully realized that this Khmer bonus is sick and insane, it is like speedometer!!! No one can stop their Hussars flood with this bonus!!! Yo was completely dominating against the kid Larry, but with Khmer bonus and only with food income the kid destroyed Yo!!!

really? because it looked like a very back and forth game to me, neither side having more then a 500 score advantage over the other, populations close to each-other throughout the mid game, and they were up to imperial age within 30 seconds of each other. not sure how how that translates into Yo dominating “the kid”.
furthermore despite seeing lots of cavalry throughout the castle age, Yo never swapped into pikes to counter the light cav/hussar, instead trying to counter it with pure archer and some light cav/hussar meat shield of his own. maybe you shouldn’t exaggerate so much.

The pikes can’t keep chasing the Hussars in the whole map!!! With their speed and numbers and with their flood you can’t make it equal!!! They will just keep running in your base killing your vills, i know that Yo did many mistakes in the game but this flood of Hussars is insane for sure, and Yo made Halbs and archers and camels but he just couldn’t stop it!!!

good thing they didn’t need to go everywhere. stay close to home and defend.
or use camels.

you easily can, Hussars have a very long training time before conscription, right up there with knights and cav archers. pikeman come out much 30% faster.

so defend some choke points with pikes or camels and laugh at their inability to do anything.

this is how i know you’re full of crap - first off Saracens don’t have Halbs. secondly, he was making mostly arbs and hussars in imperial age, not camels or pikes.

and yeah obviously he couldn’t stop it - you’re talking about a fast moving cavalry unit against Arbs.

either way, you’re entire argument is full of huge of exaggerations and misinformation.

It is hard to keep pikes at everypoint in your base to defend all your eco!!! You need large numbers so you will just close your self in your base defending and let your enemy eco untouched and letting him attacking you and that what heppened with Yo. I only find the perfects solution is to destroy your enemy before he even get imp and keep pressure on his eco, because in late game you will not have any chance, it is just like Goths, you must destroy them before imperial

make choke points. if they can’t get into your base without getting slaughtered what good are all those hussars?

and in the meantime you’re building up an army that can counter attack while your insanely cheap pikes take hugely favorable trades.

most pros don’t even take goths to imp.

again - my main point of contention is just how much misinformation your post construes.
you make it sound like Yo was miles ahead of “the kid” and Lierrey squeaked into imp, researched hussar, and won, against a yo who was making pikes, camels, and archers.

you act like its unstoppable when Yo wasn’t even building the proper army to counter Hussars.

that isn’t even close to the truth.

i’m not contesting that khmer need a nerf, they absolutely do if you ask me, but let’s not pretend like Yo played well.

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The main point that if it was not Khmer eco it is hard to liereyy to get back after that monk/siege/castle drop rush!!! With their food bonus their Hussars flood is not like any other civ! Well it is enough for now lets see what Nov update have for us

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he was literally never out of that game. it was a close game right up until the end. so no, it wouldn’t be hard to “get back in the game”.

You manupulate statistics to get the result you want.Why ro8 specifically, and not ro4 or group stage? I’ll tell you why, that’s because otherwise stats won’t support your claim. In KotD 3 they track record is 8 wins 5 loses, which is fine with this sample size.

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How about removing Bracer / Hussar / maybe even both from them?

To me their Arbs are too good of an option considering the have the best Elephants and perfectly good Cavaliers. Even the Hand Cannon is an option. But more importantly, Skirms lacking the range would give them clear a cleak weakness against the Cav Archer and Cav Archer UU civ armies.

As for the Hussar side of things. I think fast Elephants are for better or worse their identity, so I’d rather they keep Husbandry, or at least buff their civ bonus to compensate for Elephants if they remove it.
Lacking the Hussar upgrade would address the endless eco flood of them. And light cav can still perfectly well do the same role, but just a bit worse.

Arguably though, it is Hussars themselves that might deserve a balance discussion with how powerful their lategame spam seems to be.

I suppose the devs feel the Khmer economy, defensive, and elephant bonuses are too unique, and therefore too fun to them, to remove from the game. My guess is more nerfs to the tech tree. Removing Hussar at least. Maybe Arbalester too. Because both of those units were added before the farming buff, and before the farming buff caused players to play Khmer enough to realize how powerful Khmer elephants can be. Full Cavalier with Khmer bonuses isn’t a shabby thing either. Removing Arbalester might also encourage more players looking for a late game ranged option to try the Khmer Scorpion/Ballista Elephant combo.

Exactly!

Yo played such a great game from a strategic point of view but lierreyy was always ahead in farms. With these army comps is mostly just a question of time. You could see this in a lot of kotd games. The hussar spam isn’t something genuin about Khmer. Khmer is just one of the civs that can do it best. Hera even used that for quite some time as one of his main strats in rated games and went full hussar with pretty much any civ with FU hussar.

Also the constant trickle is a bit deceiving. It looks like it’s going up insanely fast because each single res is counted. Other civs trickle food in intervals of 18 res or something like that.