This is a short clip from a game today.
7 Scouts Vs 9 Archers.
Franks scouts have 20% more hp (54 instead of 45).
He is left with 6 archers, with only 1 on low HP.
Yes I should have split my army, but my expectation was an easy cleanup.
I guess I messed up by getting too close before patrolling.
Still It felt very strange to lose to that extent.
Notice any pattern?
Britons
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Byzantines
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Chinese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Ethiopians
Dark Age → ArcherEatAll Age → CrossbowEatAll Age → ArbalestEatAll Age
Incas
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Italians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Japanese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Malay
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Mayans
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest/Plume Age
Portuguese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Saracens
Dark Age → ArcherEatWall Age → CrossbowEatTC Age → ArbalestEatAll Age
Vietnamese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Vikings
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Arbalest Age
Aztecs
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Eagle Age
Berbers
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Camel Archer Age
Celts
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: CeltEatTC, DE: XbowEatMangonel Age → ArbalestEatSO Age
Cumans
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Paladin Age
Goths
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: T90Wall, DE: Crossbowman Age → Goth Spam Age
Huns
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: CA, DE: Crossbowman Age → Paladin Age
Khmer
Dark Age → Archer Age → HD: Knight, DE: Crossbowman Age → Elephant Age
Koreans
Dark Age → HD: Tower, DE: Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Tower Age
Magyars
Dark Age → HD: Scout, DE: Archer Age → HD: Knight, DE: Crossbowman Age → Paladin Age
Malians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Farimba Age
Mongols
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → Mangudai Age
Tatars
Dark Age → Archer Age → Crossbowman Age → CA/Keshik Age
Persians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin/Crossbowman Age
Burmese
Dark Age → Archer Age → Arambai Age → Halberdier Age
Franks
Dark Age → HD: Scout, DE: Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin Age
Indians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Camel Age → Imperial Camel Age
Lithuanians
Dark Age → Archer Age → Knight Age → Leitis Age
Slavs
Dark Age → HD: Scout, DE: Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin Age
Teutons
Dark Age → Archer Age → Knight Age → Paladin Age
Turks
Dark Age → Archer Age → Jani Age → OutOfGold Age
Bulgarians
Dark Age → T90Wall Age → Krepost Age → iKonnik Age
Spanish
Dark Age → T90Wall Age → Conq Age
This is why Units need to be balanced.
There are MANY reasons for this, not just Pathing.
There is also the near 0 ping we have nowadays with the Server based system.
Yeah. i do see a pattern. all these civs mix in pikes and skirms and siege into their armies on a regular basis. furthermore some of them mix in camels too. all which go unmentioned by you.
furthermore.
let’s ignore that this civ loves to use its Unique Unit
and that this civ loves to mix in siege units.
and the love of slingers, kamyuks, and eagles.
funny, i see these guys use elephants quite a bit.
funny, for a guy who likes to complain about Mayan Eagles, you don’t bring that up here.
i see them using Camels quite a bit.
and these guys using Rattan Archers all the time.
i see berserks quite a bit from them.
let’s ignore all the cavalry they regularly use.
woads want a word from you.
must be ignoring all that kipchak usage that is common lately.
literally rarely see archers and crossbow from these guys.
i don’t see huns going foot archers much unless they are doing lots of feudal aggression, but most like to get to castle and make cheap cav archers or knights.
i see more tower into war wagon from these guys then foot archers.
let’s ignore the ease and power of the scout rush with these civs and pretend they never use them!
yeah i don’t see them going archers all that often, i more often see them, (like persians) going scouts. or just ignoring this age for agression.
if i see Lithuanians build anything in feudal its trash for defense.
i rarely see these two go foot archers in feudal.
no. this is why we need Pathing fixed. you knew how game design was when you bought it. you just don’t like the current meta, or that design. that is a you problem, not a design problem.
yeah. so if you want to nerf archer micro just increase their frame delay. boom. no more hit and run and absurd micro from them. though frankly i think micro should be rewarded.
To be fair; Scouts are trash units, no Bloodlines (yes, Franks, but Frank scouts aren’t top tier; only later Cav) only 10 less resources than an Archer, and if he had fletching then he definitely should have won that fight if you don’t have armor. Any decent player has fletching long before that stage.
Knights with armor do fairly well against archers. Skirms also counter pike+archer, so they’re good to mix and are super cheap.
Could you please make this test again after latest July patch? 
It was said, that pathfinding was improved.
I’ve tried it a few times and I’m still able to win with crossbows vs knights with both set to Imperial age, but I think I have fewer crossbows remaining at the end than I did before this patch.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that you don’t get the same result for the same ratio, it depends on the absolute numbers. I get a better outcome for the crossbows with 28 vs 14 than with 16 vs 8. You do better when you can kill each knight with an integer number of shots without much overkill.
I played some Arabia games as the Berbers yesterday (scout rush, into knight spam) ~1200 ELO. I wanted to get a feeling for the melee pathing, in one game specifically I was up against huns. After our early scout war he transitioned into crossbows in Castle. 2 different times I was able to clean up his archers. Now granted, I don’t remember the exact numbers, although he outnumbered me, also I’m not sure what upgrades he had. I had Bloodline, first attack, and chain mail barding. The point though the reaction of my knights felt good, and there weren’t any moments when they were glitching out that I noticed.
Even before this update though I would disagree that knights and cavs are “unplayable” I think you need to recognize how they should be used. Knights aren’t a straight counter to archers, if you’re knights and he is archers you have a mobility advantage, you can ride away from his deathball and hit and run eco before he can catch you.
I’m not saying pathing has been good, but they are working on it, and ultimately what you want knights to be able to do, probably isn’t the design of the game.
I am confident, that heavy cavalry should be able to obliterate archers, unless those are protected by pikemen. Like in real life.
The Battle of Agincourt?
Anyone seeing improvements? I feel knights trade better against archer after the lastest patch
yeah definitely, seeing a lot less bumping and idling from all melee units. even militia line feels a lot more smooth
not perfect, but definitely better, not sure how accurate it is, but in the stats there seems to be a small jump play rate of civs like slavs that focus on melee units…
The difference feels like night and day when enganging a group of crossbow with knights. Huge difference imo.
I’ll say try to amass onagers or scorpions to take down the massed archers, considering Persian skirms lack bracer.
But yes, as mentioned above, you should not let them amass such a huge arb army, especially when they’re Mayans with cheaper arbs and stronger eco.
Interesting fact: on aoestats elo 1650 + 6 of the top 10 1v1 arabia civs get paladin, whilst only 4 of the other get Paladin.
Knight line is the strongest line in the game, but for sure, you can’t expect them to win every fight.
Espescially not a fight against massed archers in the enemy base.
I’ve won so many games just going for knights, it’s so easy if your opponent doesn’t know how to counter. But if one goes mass archers against it and wins with good micro i appreciate this. He was just better. That’s the way it works.
Of course, i will go onagers againt mass archers, but that’s another story.
interesting fact: paladins rarely come into play in 1v1 games due to insane upgrade cost.
interesting fact: 1650+ arabia has less then 4k games played, with even the most popular civs having less then 280 games played, that isn’t a lot statistically.
right now many think the archer line has it beat.