Knights should hold 2 population, change my mind

the cavalry spam makes this game the same match over and over, french just abuses this with their cheaper knights and just spam literal tanks that can’t be countered. this game is a game of cavalry right now, it needs some change and this one will solve the spam.


since they gave the lancer a bonus, it is a very good counter in relation to cost vs damage, the lancer costs only 20 wood, the 60 food is unlimited by the farms, the production time is also less 15s vs 29s of the knights , the knight costs a lot of gold that is very limited in the game, because if you have 600 gold in relics you can only produce 6 knights per minute


gold can be unlimited too, many cavalry civs abuse their heavy cavalry (knights and lancer), for example rus have high trade house and the golden gate. the French have guild hall which is basically gold printer go brrrr. French also have 3 different knigh upgrades that turn them into mini tanks. then you have the chinese with their fire lancer spam, literally printing fire lancers. as an English player i also have to highlight my civ as being also a civ that can abuse the heavy cavalry. the Hre is also another gold printer that can spam knights. its a problem of having to many of them, i get that i can just go cavalry as well, but that’s literally every game, its getting boring.

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you mean firelancers?

I actually dont find knights being to problematic?

As long as you walled well and made a backline wall. you can prevent a lot of raiding.
While certainly its not easy to do while under constant pressure.
But I find spearmen tend to do the job alright if you make a group of 10 of them and have them around your econ. Combined with towers, it should dwindle them quite efficiently.

I normally play mongols, so I can’t even build wall. But I do go silver tree / tradeboom very often.
And mongol Towering along the traderoute becomes a must.

But I started doing this with other Civ’s aswell, especially abbasid.
Towers around your econ can really stop knight-raids efficiently. Especially in the lategame with Cannon emplacement upgrades.

With Ranged-Cavalry such as Camel Archers, Mangudai and Horse Archers, make great policing and chasing after knights quite efficiently. Combine them with getting weakened by random cannonshot, backline raids tends to stop quite quickly.

When it comes to Chokepoint fights, I find just spamming trash-units far more effective than knights/cavalry.
Because Spearmen produce so fast, and can be easily supported by mass siege / alternatively handcannoneers it becomes really hard to push through because loosing so many knights in the frontline drains your econ significantly.

But yes, Towers with emplacement around your econ mid to late game should sort out most of the mass knight raids if you combine them with a group of spearmen+crossbow. You can at least keep them off your most important infrastructures.

spear men do pretty much nothing, they cost the same housing space, so an equal numbers fight almost always results in a heavy cavalry win.


Then you’re not having enough production.
you can produce 2.5 spearmen by the time you can produce 1 knight.
You should be able to overflood their knightblob easily in chokepoint head-ons.
Also always make sure your spearmen are on the defensive and line formation. If you tell them to attack, they won’t brace.
Brace stuns the Knight/Horseman for 1.5 seconds, in a 1on1 fight if the knight gets braced against, they will barely win with only slight amount of HP left, both being max upgraded.
Against abbasid spearmen, they wont even win because they haven’t gotten in range to attack.
Against HRE spearmen, they don’t stand a chance as they are armored and take much less damage.

If the enemies is just spamming knights.
Just go Spearmen+Crossbow.
It’s a double hardcounter that quickly kills knights faster than they can kill your spears.
It also does decently well against MaA.
If you have strong wood econ, support your spears with Mangonels.
The mangonels does descent splash damage on the knights.
You force the knights to attack the mangonels.
You bodyblock the mongels with your spears / crossbows and get tons of extra kills. While the mangonel focuses on whatever blob within range, even better if they move up their archer support.


they cost less and are produced in less time, if it is a good counter

they just need to nerf franch, feudul age early knight is just too much.

also english darkage man at arm are jokes.

how about give chinese castle age little bombard.

or feudul age young elephant for delhi.

If your peak late game, pikeman are going to lose population wise to Knights. French are strong but you need to play the early mid game better when the cost of Knights actually matters. Multiple pop units is a terrible idea beyond siege.

men at arms are jokes as in they are trash or good?.

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Well, reducing knight’s cost and nerf its damage at same time maybe another thinkable idea I guess.

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May I ask how you open, and what civs you play? Because those 2 things will determine how best you should handle French Knight raids.

How should the English handle a French Knight Raid?

Severall ways. You can use walls, you cam use towers with springald emplacements too, these destroy knights, spearman, etc.

better idea is to increase the que time of knights; this way it takes longer to get started and longer to remass; b/c increasing the population doesn’t really nerf early knight to mid knight production only late late late full mass knight fights.


The balance of the vast majority of units is fine as is.

Knights in the late game are up against walls, castles, and handcannoneer, crossbowman, or spearmen-style units that do a more or less good job.

It is logical and normal that the French make more knights because it is 1 of their 2 unique units and has a specific Landmark for it.

The only thing I would change about France is that the knights did not heal on the move, little else.


While its not bad idea it just means player needs more stables.

“just make more stables” at 150w per; that’s not just; until you get very very late game; meanwhile having knights go from 35s to 45s will have a HUGGGEE impact the whole game.

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not really a very late game scenario. If player macros properly they get essentially 100-130 villagers in around 12-15mins which is more than enough to get more stables out.

Sure it has impact. Every 5th knight would take longer essentially, but it also has quite lot other things. For example it affects french / ru early feudal and while civs are not bad or anything, but french relies early aggression. So some cases some civs would need buff to compensate overall nerf of knights/lancers.