Knights should hold 2 population, change my mind

In which metaverse do you get to have 100 villagers in 12-13 minutes? :smiley:


i main english, its not only the french though, its just cavalry spam from everyone, i spam spearmen and crossbows but they generally dont do much, i will take the walling advice though i need to wall more.

Rus and French gonna wait 12-15min to field knights?? FC english gonna have 100+ vil at 12-15min?? Are you bringing in team scenarios in again in a 1 v 1 convo??

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Nope not even this time either, but its true that larger the map is easier its to get away with booming, but like I mentioned not this time like not in last time we talked.

1 TC creates 3 villagers per minute. So you can do the math if you get 2nd TC up at 7min mark. 26+48 = 74 workers. So its not unheard with 3TC boom reaching around 100 villagers at 15min mark.

And obviously a lot depends on match up and the map. Not necessary wise to try boom as hard as possible if facing opponent in open map

Soooo basically NOT in a 1v1 game typically?? Bc only one going for 3 tc is enemy vs china 2tc song. So if knights took just 10 more seconds to field that would delay french pressure and impact all knight momentum after trades. French sitting comfy at the top win rate followed by tower rush fc mongol lancer spam; this would be a great nerf

Ok, here is a “cheap” and simple trick against french knights, you see this is used by Pro players quite a lot when matched up against french.

Cheap walls and Towers.
Early knights believe it or not are rather vournarable to arrows.
Build palisades to limit the approach for knights.
And a placement of few good towers to cover important resources is vital.
Open with 2 scouts (starting scout + extra scout) Collect as much sheep as you can, first scout you just run towards the front, while the second scout collects the stuff in the back.
This way you’ll collect a lot of sheep that you can use as safe food.
A tower covering gold, and a tower covering the woodline and another tower covering stone/mill
all upgraded with arrow slits in Feudal, should be enough to deterr and keep most knights away. Eespecially if you have walls positioned in such a way that you force the knights to move as close to the TC as possible.
Even if they don’t die, you shud have wounded them enough.
and just go for castle age, by now you should be able out-boom the french having spent so much resources on knights.

It’s as simple as that.

  • If you play HRE its super easy, they have cheaper emplacements, and going for burgrave allows you to build a early counter. (Maa mixed with landsknechts, easily counters knights+archers, even xbows)

  • Mongol’s don’t have walls but you can use a few extra towers and keep most resources well within TC range.
    Go for extra barracks and spearmen, research imp siege engineering and build 3 mangonels with fair amount of spearmen. Their knight/archer/xbow compo doesn’t stand a chance against spears+mangonels. With the mangonels you also can force/bait the french to try go for your mangonels. a few Mangudai with BS upgrades also does a pretty descent job at hunting down and killing off any knights.

  • Abbasids, you can pretty much replicate this + go for a stronger econ with second TC to cover a larger area + you can go for camel archers that deal with knights extremely well. and extra range on spears. makes raiding abbasids often very risky for french. Nor can they compete in the econ game against them.

  • Rus have knights of their own in feudal, and even better towers.

  • English have Longbows that is easy to reach critical mass + negates knight charge if you use palings correctly, get a early Blacksmith and get +1 arrow dmg upgrade, it does wonders against feudal knights.
    Also if a knight attacks your woodline, supported by towers, you can easily snipe the knights with longbow/villagers combined concentrating fire. not to mention their TC is a machinegun.

  • Chinese have gunpowder towers that ignores the knights armor, so they kill knights really rapidly.
    Use the BBQ to secure even more resources.

  • Dheli has even better spearmen, who can build palisades and can easily block out knight raids. + later on they get forced march that allows them to chase knights. keeps that acts as TC and elephants that really hardcounter knights. Not to mention scholars that can heal up any wounded villagers.


Ummm i dont know if you missed it or not but i stated that diamond plus still has french rank 1 in win rates and the only 2 match up french loses at that level are vs mongols (fc better knights spam) and abbasid the calvary killer…sooooo save all your hero advice bc clearly diamond plus players might know a thing or 2 about playing rhe game??

Nerf the que time relic!!! (Also off topic implement the split dynasty perks per landmark idea i presented in another thread).

Whats typical for you? BBQ rush every game? But yes its less likely to happen in 1v1 where none abbassid / china goes 3 TC, usually because they don’t have to or they can’t.

Yes it would impact the early knight pressure but it would also take quite lot away not just from french but other civs. You have to remember french gets -20% production speed on stables in age 2. So if specifically nerffing early french pressure they could move the production speed as tech to castle age with low cost like lets say 50gold and 30second research time. This way we would achieve same results without impacting other civs.

But the question then comes are knights/lancers too strong in castle age too?

Sure french is now top at higher elo ladder games but is that also case in tournaments too? Because we have to also take pro level into consideration. Also high pickrate of HRE is affecting french too. French being the best counter to HRE and both got similar pickrates which results french getting more favorable matches those impacting winrates.

We also have to remember how straight forward french is as civ. Its super easy to play and everything is handed on silver plate with no difficulty whats so ever so more players are picking it especially when they get better success with it.

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I’ve been able to withstand early French raid as the English by actively reinforcing my econ points with a tower and Spearman. Then the Longbows are used as additional damage and bait for the Knights. Spearman can be amassed very quickly, and Longbows even quicker. If your opponent invests in early Knight raids, and are able to withstand 8-10 French Knight raid early, you are at a very strong gold advantage and even a quicker castle age advantage.

Their charge bonus is pretty nasty… that would be the only thing I consider nerfing. They are strong, and annoying… but not “un-counterable”

Just my experience. I am only a Platinum player, though.


As usual when you’re wrong… gou first take jabs then agree with the points ive made… sigh

Look up 1v1 rank matchups on you’ll see basically at each ranking level french has the most favorable win rates vs other civs… so that cant be a result of french just strong countering hre… if french has a positive win rate vs every other faction but mongols and abbasid it clear why!!! Feudal knight pressure period. No pros need to be considered for my points bc pro players make up less than 0.41% of the statistics we’re using and actually less than that bc not all conq 3 players are pro.

Relic add 10s to knight/lancer que time, it WILL impact knight/lancer timing and remass timings noticeably esp at higher levels of play.

Beasty and others to include yourself in other post have stated calvary is extremely favored in current patch. Making everyone’s knights suffer will be a GOOD thing for army diversification.

Knights taking longer to que automatically buffs horsemen, fire lancers, camel riders countering, crossbow countering, in small skirmishes strengthen spearman countering, and more!!

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French has a good WR because they are an easy civ and their knights heal themselves

But they are extremely predictable

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This actually hasn’t been true for a while. Attack moving spearmen will brace. If you give them a regular move command then they won’t.

Git Gud !!!

Spearmen always trade more efficiently, and Abbasid spearmen perform much better.
You must learn the game…

bro really thinks every civ is like abbasids.

You HAVE to wall your flanks, if you can force them to attack from one direction you have done most of the job
Fail to wall and you will have a single knight annoying you the other side of your base

You need to build at least a tower on your gold while you are aging up

You need to remember french will eventually train archers to support their knights against pikes, you will need an anti archer unit too (horsemen is my fav option, but HRE MAA, longbows or Rus early knights are ok too)

Yes im very much wrong or not.

Alright firstly. I do not care overall situation so Ill be only including above diamond results. Now this might get bit hard for me to explain and complicated so try to follow as best as u can. If its confusing here is TLDR: Only reason why French has that high winrate is because of HRE.

Firstly only reason why french has so highest winrate at diamond or above is due it being best counter to HRE. Its simple as that and here is proof.

If we take the positive winrates (excluding HRE) to calculate new winrate against HRE (add all positive winrates together / 4 = new winrate for hre) this brings new winrate for HRE to 53.5.

Then we proceed to replace winrate of against HRE which is 62.5 with 53.5. Now lets calculate new French winrate with this number.

All winrates / 7 = 50.38% winrate.

So do you now understand how much the 62.5 winrate against HRE impacts the results? Math proves it. Its good that you like statistic but its better to actually take a time while looking at them and thinking what is the cause. Yes French would still have positive winrate, but they would be 3-4th spot.

This is true but it would also impact every civ not just french. Like I said if intention is to nerf french then it would be better change civ specific things rather than change something that affects every civ.

This is very true. Knights are way too strong. The issue is not just that player needs 3:1 ratio of spears to counter them but the fact that forcing direct engagement with knights is very hard to do and chasing them with handful of spears if the knight mass is right it just leads defender losing units. Spears can be used to trade well against knights, but it has so many issues that maybe adding extra training time could solve it, but it wont solve it for lower elo players who are not considering how many barracks they need. So at highest level this could play really big part to balance things out but we would till most likely see lot of cry from lower elo players about this. Its true that I don’t really care about lower level, because they lose almost always due their own mistakes, but when pro level is saying something similar to low elo then there is issue and issue won’t necessary go away with this.

Rise of cavalry is simple. Siege getting butchering patch after patch has brought this and especially when HC got also nerffed.

It would become much more important to keep knights alive. It reminds me a lot how protoss in sc2 works. Too bad that FL won’t be any good even in this scenario

You don’t need a 3/1 ratio of spearmen to counter. As long as the correct micro of spear animations are done, 2/1 is more than enough.

From my point of view, the cavalry technology should force the knights to stop in order to heal, but it would hardly touch the French much more (perhaps a very slight nerf to some bonus).

Advanced Stats Reading:

  • A civ with a 5% pick rate and 52% WR is no better at overrall than a civ with 48% wins and a 20% pick rate, since a civ is often used a lot on many maps by players who they don’t have it as a main civ and those who use the civ with a 5% pick rate are usually on specific maps and players who have it as a main.

  • Although the sample is not a great thing, you have to compare the trends between choosing “Diamond” and “Diamond+”. If a civilization clearly lowers or raises its WR or pick rate, it is because at higher levels it is usually weaker or stronger than what “Diamond+” says.

  • The MU are important, but what you say is correct, a civ can have 48% WR, but it is because there is 1 MU where it loses 60% or more, but in the other MU they can do well.

You have to know how to interpret the numbers you see well.

Some ppl are just so ■■■■■■■ dense and live in stupid world that doesn’t even make sense…

tRy tO sEe If yOu CAn fOlLoW Me…

Can we all counter together how many green percentages we see in the First row (the French row) please?? Now, class, can we tell me if the Red Rus flag, the White/Red English flag, the Red/yellow Chinese flag, the Green/black delhi flag ALL STAND FOR ■■■■■■■ HRE???

As usual when you’re wrong… rather than be HUMBLE AND SAY, " I’m wrong" and move the ■■■ on…you instead post long winded posted in hopes of sounding better about the WRONG BS stated…

French clearly at ALL RANKS…allll of them; look for your damn self… has a GREEN win rate vs every other civ except Abbasid and mongols… periodddddt.

This again is b/c you live in a bubble of 2v2 or whatever and you don’t see HIGH LEVEL PLAYERS abusing Firelancer & spears aka Beasty and Szalamii??? But too bad Fire lancers won’t get used right???