Would you prefer +1PA but lacking final armor upgrade? It would be more and less the same
Exactly.
Like 20% faster projectiles, zero frame delay/halved delay, 10% faster moving AR units, Skirmishers trainable in barracks starting feudal, Villagers +1 attack, University can be built and Masonry, Heated Shot can be researched in Feudal for half price, Walls +3 LOS etc.
They should just bring in newer and newer game mechanics into play widening the possibilities of bonuses.
Something that brings in fresh new strategies that the pros have to seriously think about and prepare for, to not let the metagame stale.
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Definitely. Faster projectile would be good in targeting moving unit (Especially before Ballistics). 10% moving AR unit can also be generic version of Rattan and become easier to micro. Skirmishers train in Barrack is also good for defensive bonus. Neither of them useless nor OP.
University in Feudal can also be unique, but some university tech (Ballistics, Murder hole) is quite overpower to research in Feudal, and others are not worth research it. So, it should be think about more.
Koreans winrate will likely increase after new patch. But they become less unique by losing Tower range bonus which now have to research in Castle. And get situationally overpower but not unique and uninteresting bonus.
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Thatâs the problem with unique bonuses. This one for example sounds harmless, but might be completely broken on high level play. If you can outmicro the opponents shots, but he cant outmicro yours, thatâs very bad (and I mean gamebreakingly bad).
I have to admit I thought it would be interesting when I read it first too though.
Now before pointing that out consider if that can actually happen at just 20% faster projectiles
With warwagons would be great
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Ww are already balanced, but Italians cry in the corner.
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True, i expected a new bonus for themâŠ
I hope their UUs and UTs receive more buffs, together a buff for HC.
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War Wagons are on the weaker/less viable side of UUs still. Easily Ignored and/or jebaited and killed by all kinds of trash. Very unimpressive for a Gold unit from the Stone depleter building.
And then thereâs EAs and Ballista Elephants⊠lol
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I did and I think it could 
At some range thatâs certainly the case. Because face to face you canât micro and at max range you can micro. Somewhere in between is the spot where that changes. With faster projectiles that spot is further away.
So the big question would be how much of a difference 20% faster projectiles make (but if itâs no big difference, then whatâs the point of that âbuffâ?).
Anyway, I just wanted to show that itâs not that easy to make exciting changes. There are quite some things to worry about.
And I still think the free armour is not as boring as you claim.
Itâs easier the more people there are willing to spend time for thinking and proposing exciting changes. And not for mundane changes.
I disagree with the mundane part.
Magyars have scout discount and free melee upgrades with no eco bonus.
Now, korean have wood discount with archer armor upgrades and stone bonusâŠ
Their tech tree is not comparable. They are two very different civs despite their free upgrades and discounts without important eco bonuses
If magyar had attack upgrades, why shouldnt an archer civ get armor ones? This is a logical, not only mundane, approach
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The bonuses are too similar, even if they apply to different units.
More exciting bonuses are those which directly buff particular units in new ways for specific situations.
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Thatâs your opinion though.
I donât need ânew waysâ. I want something that works and is good for the game. And I think a lot of people are with me there.
AoE2 is a very good game right now. It doesnât need drastic changes and exciting new stuff to keep it fresh. Good if thereâs a nice idea and it works, but it staying a good game is way more important than new exciting stuff.
Also the buff for Koreans just doesnât have the intention of giving them a brand new exciting identity. The goal is just to make a civ, which is below average, a little bit better - and I think thatâs what it does.
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Is it though? Actually the end goal is to get as many people as possible to like the game and remain interested.
Balancing poor civs is a means to that end.
But adding interesting changes is also a means to that same end. Flaming camel anyone? Auto scout?
Imo stuff like Pavise affecting condos was something more exciting than simply giving a free tech.
Im happy that bad civs are being buffed either way. But if the devs had time it would be nice to see more interesting changes.
Not only are mayans OP but they are also unique to play with their archers doing things few factions can do(tear down bases) , eagles doing things few factions can do, and their UU being both viable and different to other archers (even moar micro capability)
In comparison you have Koreans, archers any more exciting than any other civ? No. UU exciting? Hard no. It sucks at micro and is so bulky. About the only âexcitingâ things are their naval UU(1% of games) and their onager in the end game. They donât have eles, SL or camels. And a pretty narrow tech tree.
If we want a boring narrow tech tree we can play britons and rek everyone instead⊠At least their civ bonuses are more exciting, their archers need a lot more micro to maximise the effect.
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War Wagons are top tier UU.
Tell me what counters Castle Age WW other than Eagles/Huskarls?
Pikes and Camels donât work because low armor
Knights canât kill 250hp units that hit and runs
Crossbows are useless
Skirmishers work if there are more than 15
Monks work only vs maximum 5 Wagons.
Maybe these ones are more exciting but when the idea is to buff a civ for the early game there isnât many options. Eventually, itâs about having an effective buff. Nice if this happens to be an original one but not the end of the world if otherwise. I prefer this scenario over some castle age tweaks that have zero impact on their feudal age.
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Hit and run is difficult with 1 sec attack delay as we see for cav Archer. But yeah WW are still solid UU.
Which i think it will be the italian caseâŠ
I also like the bonus because it reinforces their defensive identity at least against archer civs.
wood discounted skirms with free armor, as someone stated above, makes archer rushes useless even if koreans dont pick fletchling
war wagons are one of the best unique units in the game. how are they easily killed by trash? maybe if they are way out numbered, but good luck with that. they have range, they only take 6 bonus damage from skirms (and have 150-200 health, you do the math), and can kite pikes/halbs.
guys remember when i made that thread about archers being op and needing nerfs? 20% faster projectiles? no frame delay? enemies not being able to run away? yeah okay parthnan. thought you said archers were so op they needed nerfs.
villagers +1 attack would just lead to cheese. those university techs are pretty much useless and donât see any reason to be used.
fresh new strategies? like what - turning the op (in your mind) archers into units that canât be microed against, that you canât run from, and can shoot even faster with micro then they do now? thought you said archers were op before.
and would drastic changes bring more people in? or chase them away? based on aoe3 iâm gonna say the latter.
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