Koreans have hit a record low on Arabia

Participation of the Korean Civ in the KotD3 Tournament:
0 times played
0 times banned in draft
0 time picked in draft

1v1 Winrate on Arabia:
Average Elo: 38.73%
1650+ Elo: 38.50%

Average Elo: 0.99%
1650+ Elo: 1.20%

Now, some might argue “But they are an ok civ on water maps” -> However, in current ranked mode there is oftentimes no water map in the mappool while Arabia has a play rate of about 60%.

I am not arguing that every civ needs to be good on Arabia but having Koreans in the civ pool can be a death sentence for people going random civ. 38% winrate is just too low to be acceptable…

I think if there was just one civ getting a buff in the next patch, it ought to be the Koreans.

How would you fix them?

I would do it by simplifying their bonuses:

• Tower range +1 Castle, +2 Imperial Age
• Military units (except siege weapons) cost -20% wood

My proposal:
• Building range +1 Castle, +2 Imperial Age
• Military units cost -20% wood

This makes the stone bonus somewhat useful in more games (not just the ones where you tower rush).
Now the wood bonus mostly affects ships and trash units. They lack a bonus for Archer/Infantry/cavalry -> let them at least have a little bonus on the Siege…

(See further refinement of my proposal in comment number 116 down below…)


While I agree that they need a buff, what kill them is the have pretty much nothing for them until imperial age. Buffing their siege won’t help. They need some help before that.

I would give them either free archer armor, or some eco bonus. They have average infantry, good archers, awful stable and good siege, but nothing to die for (yeah, their siege onager is excellent, but until their UT, it’s almost generic) both celts and slavs get at the same time better siege and eco bonuses. And wider tech trees.

They need either a military bonus or an eco one. Their wood discount is useless. Ir omly applies to 3 viable units, and 20% is not enough


What about a wood trickle for the entire game?

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Also get Blast Furnace?

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I think the UT Shinkichon (Mangonel-line +1 range) should be moved to castle.

Turtle ships should be faster with the elite upgrade.

Then they could get another tech for imp but their Siege would be quite nice in castle age


How about they collect wood without Lumbercamp just like Khmer collect food straight from farms ^^

No could be bad and broken, what I propose is just a very small one.

I do like the elegance of the OPs proposal.

Funny no-one here has argued it’d be an overbuff. I’d be slightly worried the proposal would make Koreans OP in certain situations, but I can’t think of any problem cases. Maybe shooting your opponents Castle down with your own, without him being able to retaliate, but I’d have to see how bad that is.


they need to bring back the free +1 mangonel range in castle age. It used to be a team bonus in the past, but they should bring it back at least as a civ bonus. This would give them some help before imperial age, making maybe some type of pike + mangonel or monks siege push viable more than normal. And it would kinda bring their Siege Onagers back on par with the celts. Currently the +1 range feels very underwhelming compared to celts 20% faster production, 40% more HP, and 25% faster firing.

Or maybe just remove panokseon tech for turtles, add that as base speed to the turtles, and replace the with another +1 mangonel range tech, so they have 2 identical techs(for total +2).

I’d also maybe give the Koreans 50% wood discount on towers, 25 instead of 50. So that they actually have a viable trush.

But idk maybe this is too many bonuses, and a lot of people don’t like buffing their trush aspect. But the thing is Koreans are kind of just average when it comes to the trush, they need some kind of trush bonus. People know them as THE tower civ yet they are nothing special compared to Incas/japanese/spanish/mongols who can perform much better trush due to faster feudal uptime or better military bonuses

They only start having good towers in castle age and after, that kinda makes koreans as the weird castle age towers civ.

Anyways don’t really take my post too seriously, I’m aware some of these suggestions might be OP. I’m just kind of brainstorming and fishing for ideas.


They need an early eco buff. Feudal trush cannot help koreans at higher elo.

I would say extend the 20% wood bonus to military buildings. It’s like military eco counterpart of Japanese. (ie. Military units cost -20% wood -> military units and buildings cost -20% wood) Barracks, range, stable and siege workshop are now cheaper. If this is not enough for early game, including blacksmith then.

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Not saying the idea is bad, but 20% is too mild when compared to the Malian -15% wood discount.


need a dark age bonus

if dark age was balanced, then it improves all ages and a wide variety of maps. adjusting niche late-game stuff doesn’t fix as many problems

they should give all these weak civs +25 food +25 wood as a temporary buff until they figure out something better to do. leaving them in a bad state for years is not the way

But then the only viable building left to be included would be house. But I think it’s too much for Korean early bonus.

What about your herdables, deer, and boars are visible at the start; herdables have +3 LOS; deer always spawn next to berry bushes? These help dark age economy and are more beneficial in open maps like arabia where they are weak than closed maps where they are pretty strong.

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Koreans have so many bonuses but almost all of them shine in tower rush and late game. Villager +3 LoS is limited to the beginning of the game and trush.

It seems that Devs tend to see fewer trush. Koreans has lost speed to build fortification. Feudal tower get hp reduced. I think it’s ok to replace +3 LoS with new bonus as trush is kinda annoying and boring to deal with.

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“Your herdables” does not belong to you until your scout/villagers convert it. So all herdables (herdable does not include boar) being visible at the start is more feasible. This can replace villager +3 LoS imo.

Do something to lower the pick rate of Arabia then.

Why do you think it is workable to make all 35 civs having 50% win rate when people only play one map?

Seriously a real-time strategy game which people only want to play one map? Don’t you feel something is going wrong? It is not only boring to play but also boring to watch.


Koreans would be the “lame” civ then. Stealing sheep is definitely one way to get a dark age boost lol. Maybe the devs could put some perimeters on what “your” herdables, boars, and deer are. For instance, if they are within 25 tiles of your TC then they are visible. That way it won’t reveal the enemies.


Animals within 20 range from TC are visible at the beginning then. This also includes deer, wolves boar and their respective counterparts then.

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Sounds like the “issue” is the pick rate for Arabia. Koreans are the campiest civ in the game and are far better for wallable maps. Rolling a closed map civ for an open map is no different than rolling a civ with short, or zero, economy bonuses on Arena/Black Forest/etc., like the Magyars. I’m fine with not every civ being good for every map type, and I’m fine with “Random” meaning exactly what it says: Random.