Lakota Flag Poll

[AnaWinters]

Flags

I do not like the current Lakota flag in the game. It is a fake creation, made specifically for the game. It astounds me that the devs actually took the time to, not only make a fake flag for the Lakota, but look at the previous fake flag and decide that wasn’t stereotypical enough.

Gonna be frank, using ptechaka (the buffalo) to represent us was a bad choice. If the devs had taken the time to even look at any flags used by the modern Lakota, they’d have noticed there is a singular aspect that ties the majority of the flags together - the tipi. It rings around the Rosebud, Oglala, and Standing Rock flags, while being central to the Cheyenne River, Lower Brule flags, and Lake Traverse flags.

The only two flags that don’t feature the tipi are the Yankton and Flandreau flags. The latter features an eagle instead, but the Yankton flag uses geometric shapes to emulate a tipi through design without actually putting one directly on the flag.

Etymology

The reasoning behind this is likely behind the etymology of the word thipi itself. It does not mean house, per se, like popular belief. Thipi’s root word is thi, which means “they”. Adding pi onto it indicates it is where “they” dwell. It is indicative of a group of people who share commonalities - this could be as small as a family, in a single tent, or it could be an entire people united under a common banner.
Either way, the point is that there is a reason the tipi ends up on our flags and in our visual artwork so much. It represents us.

In that same vein, ptechaka - the buffalo - are not us. They are a different nation. They are our cousins, but they are not us. Would an American use a symbol of China to represent themselves?

Conclusion

Please, change it to this. (Sorta - I also petition some graphic work be done to reduce the number of tipis to 7, rather than 9, as the 9 tipis represent the 9 districts of the Pine Ridge Reservation, but they could easily be adapted to represent the 7 Lakota tribes. (In a similar vein, please rename the Lakota support cards, it pains me to see how little thought was put into those.))

• Yes, change the flag
• No, leave the flag
• I want to see the results
• Other (Please explain)

Philaunyanpi! Thanks to all of you!

[Ekdal1378]

Why the before one was bad?? I mean, there was a tepee there.

[AssertiveWall20]

Someone please ask the cultural consultant what he was thinking with that thing.

[RafaSheep]

My opinion: Leave the flag as is, but implement alternatives for the player to choose, think of them as profiles pictures for the specific civ. That would be any of the different Nations’ flags that could be applied in the game’s timeframe.

[Geojak92]

Could we also please don’t use modern Russia flag. I preferred the one in aoe 3 nilla?!

[ArrivedLeader22]

That “modern” Russian flag has been used for quite long, and the vanilla Russian flag (black eagle on yellow backgrounds) was not accurate at all (it was a naval ensign) and was too similar to the updated German flag (and the vanilla German flag was not accurate either).

If one really wants an actual Russian flag that does not look so modern, this would be a better choice:

[ArrivedLeader22]

I might be wrong but afaik this flag is actually quite modern (20th century)?
Or maybe a similar design has been around for quite a while before becoming the “official” Oglala flag?

@AnaWinters

[ScalierCactus96]

Isn’t there something more important you can worry about?

[Aetium6665]

@ArrivedLeader22

it was a naval ensign

And weren’t flags primarily used for ships .

[ArrivedLeader22]

Not really sure what you mean here?

BTW I found this design turns out to be used a little more than just the naval ensign.

(source: wikipedia)

[newaoeiiiai]

I’m in support of letting the people being represented in-game to choose their flags representation, and if the Lakota people desire a different flag I’m %100 behind it.

talk with other fellow Lakota and contact Microsoft about it. I’m sure they will listen.

[Jonasnee8581]

that flag was changed because the german flag also got changed.

also the russian flag is older than you think.

[Ekdal1378]

@RafaSheep

implement alternatives for the player to choose, t

I dont want to sound offensive, but How many lakota players are there? I dont think that having more flags per civ would be a great feature to the game. It would be implemented to that player screen only or by mods.

Sorry @newaoeiiiai, this is not for you, i missclicked

[RafaSheep]

Several of the game’s civilizations used different flags over the game’s timeframe. Some have taken issue to the adequacy or relevancy of certain flags, so I think giving players the agency to choose wouldn’t detract from the game experience. It could even enhance immersion.
If players are concerned by the readability of other player’s civs, then the default flag could be left in the player list in the UI.

[ArrivedLeader22]

I actually imagined using different flags if the same civ occurs more than once in one game. For example:
French player 1

French player 2

French player 3

Germans can use the HRE banner, and Austrian/Prussian/Saxon flags etc.

The homecity button can still use the default flag though.

[AnaWinters]

@Ekdal1378

I dont want to sound offensive, but How many lakota players are there?

The whole reason I’ve made this poll is because I am Lakota lol.

@newaoeiiiai

and if the Lakota people desire a different flag I’m %100 behind it.

Unfortunately, I believe I’m the only outspoken Lakota player in the forums.

@ScalierCactus96

Isn’t there something more important you can worry about?

No? I am Lakota. This is important, because I’m rather disliking of the overall flag. It’s even worse that they went out of their way to replace a fake flag with another fake flag.

@ArrivedLeader22

I might be wrong but afaik this flag is actually quite modern (20th century)?
Or maybe a similar design has been around for quite a while before becoming the “official” Oglala flag?

It is quite a modern flag, but the problem with the whole flag usage in the first place is that we didn’t use them.
But I see nothing wrong with using an authentic flag the people created from the modern era rather than using some fake flag made by devs who know nothing about the culture. If anything, it’s better to use the authentic, out-of-time flag than trying to make up a fake one for the time period.

[TyrannoNinja]

@AnaWinters

If the devs had taken the time to even look at any flags used by the modern Lakota, they’d have noticed there is a singular aspect that ties the majority of the flags together - the tipi.

Ironically, the Lakota flag in the original War Chiefs expansion had a tipi instead of a bison. I dunno if the designer was Native though.

[UpmostRook9474]

@ArrivedLeader22

French player 1

French player 2

I would like to use the tricolour flag to introduce a new revolution option of French - The French Revolution or the French Republic, then the Bourbon Flag could be changed into it.

[TyrannoNinja]

Speaking of flags for the Lakota, there is this mod in the mods section that replaces the DE version with the official flag of the Oglala subtribe:

Mods Single - Age of Empires

There’s another one for the Haudenosaunee:

Mods Single - Age of Empires

[Aetium6665]

@ArrivedLeader22

Not really sure what you mean here?

You said that the old russian flag was inaccurate as it was an naval ensign to which I reply “It’s no problem since flags as we know it were first used to distinguish allied ships from others”

@AnaWinters

whole flag usage in the first place is that we didn’t use them

I would like to ditch using flags altogether for civs that weren’t known for using flags but unfortunately it would do away with a aesthetic feature of the game present since Vanilla .