Everyone already knows mid to late game this mega RAM infinite stream is a problem; especially when executed by Rus and even worse when executed by RUS and the defender is Delhi which have no horsemen with siege bonus an has to resort to springalds knights and scouts…
This is my suggested fix across the board. The Imperial technology that give Rams fast training and higher dps should CONTINUE to provide the exact same buffs as they do RIGHT NOW; but researching the technology also changes the cost of rams from 250w up to 600w. Secondly, there should be an additional technology that can be researched in the university that give ALL MELEE units additional damage vs siege. Done.
Changing the late game cost will slow down the mega mass and slow down the successive waves of Rams streaming into a town. Also by having a separate tech that gives ALL melee MORE anti siege bonus damage it allows for a legit and COST EFFICIENT counter to now a 600 wood siege unit.
Imagine 7 horsemen could effectively destroy 30 rams before they completely decimate a whole town?? 30 rams that would each now cost 600w ? Vs the 120 resources horseman? IMO this would allow LATE RAM to still be effective AND YET provide a legit counter-play.
NOW i think about it??? Move the ALL MELEE bonus to siege from Imperial into CASTLE AGE. And instead of being a university technology make it a BLACKSMITH technology.
Honestly, I would just nerf their pierce armor. 40 pierce armor in imp just means they take really medicore damage from springalds/culverins/emplacements. Just nerfing that to 30 would make them slightly less obnoxious. Or just give something a bonus vs rams.
They don’t need to be gutted, but they are overtuned right now, and it’s only really an issue with imperial age.
Max rus stats Battering ram
gets created in 20s;
cost 250 wood,
has 504 HP,
50 pierce armor,
heals for 2hp/s WHILE IN COMBAT…
Meanwhile you suppose a respectful counter is the springalds?
Costly 250w 250gold!!! (Not just twice the cost of a single ram but cost GOLDD? The scarce late game resource)
Has 100 damage vs seige every 3 seconds (therefore a single springald would require 13 shots to kill a fully beefed up Ram).
You do notice if RAMs had zero armor it would STILL require 6 springald shots to kill it?? A 500 resources “counter unit” (the springald) needs 6+ shots to kill a 250 resource unit (the beefy ram) and you think anything about this could become balanced by merely reducing the range armor?
Light Melee Cavalry have +10 bonus vs siege added to their regular damage output. So an Imp Horseman would kill a beefy RAM in 35s. An imp knight would do 46 damage on charge then 32 damage per strike. So 1 knight would kill 1 504HP RAM in 21s or so?? But Rus ram push consists of spearman streltsy ram…how do you suppose you’ll keep knights alive long enough to delete these cheap NON-gold units being traded for your knights???
Forgot to add; rus also has 20% wood gathering buff whole game?? Which feeds into this RAM issue…
I have to disagree with your use of this term clunky?
You’d IMO rightly be trading resources for more power; in fact each upgrade in this game IS this concept; except its a ONE TIME PAYMENT. This would be a permanent payment increase for a permanent buff.
As the RAM is beyond broken and efficient even in castle age as their isnt any unit that comes close enough to being an efficient counter that does not have an EVEN more efficient counter (spearman vs melee cavalry).
Aka RAM MASS SPEARS and some crossbows and or other unit to support; gg
There are no other techs in the game that increase the cost of something. I see no reason to start now, when there are a dozen other ways they could tweak the balance.
They did tell us they are going to do something about it.
I don’t follow how adjusting the cost upwards after a special tech is causing you so much angst just because it hasn’t been done before? What makes this way of “nerfing” the unit less attractive outside being different?
I mean Rus rams are not the same as regular rams. Most of the post was about regular ram information, I defintely don’t mind nerfing Rus rams, civ is already insanely strong, even if it’s tied behind a landmark that is not always built.
The change I suggested would allow other siege, emplacements and handcannons to do a bit more damage.
I’m just leery of nerfing rams too hard unless we buff bombards/trebs or nerf stone defenses since many games/maps already devolve into absolute slogs lategame.
The only 1 tech unique to Rus is Wondering Town (+50% base attack and 2HP/s healing); this tech is strong!! And rams costing wood only does synergize well with Rus increase wood gather rate; HOWEVER??
1 Standard Imperial Ram with Siege Works (20% HP buff + 10 pierce armor) still requires 9 springald shots to kill? And if a standard Ram with 504 HP had ZERO PIERCE ARMOR; it would STILL require 6 springald shots to kill?? That seems balance to you?? You think a 40 range springald tower is gonna do anything vs that? or even a 70 range bombard tower? With zero ARMOR a springald tower would still need 13 shots?? and a bombard tower would require 8 shots. Mind you I’m still saying zero pierce armor? You don’t want it to have zero pierce armor? You want it to have LESS THAN 40? I just demonstrated that EVEN IF IT WERE ZERO; it would still require TOO MUCH to counter?
I mean you don’t need units that just delete rams, otherwise what would be the point of the unit. Springalds aren’t meant to be a hard counter, but increasing their damage to rams by like 15% would be helpful, plus the keeps/towers would be hitting them for slightly more meaningful damage, not to mention they would shoot like 3-4 times each before the ram got to do anything.
Springalds actually do other things, Rams don’t do anything other than hit buildings, they can’t kill units. Sure they are a bit overtuned now, but so is stone defenses on many maps. Nerfing Rams would make the imperial late game even more burdensome and wonders stronger in team games.
If they did as you suggested, spears and MAA would just obsolete rams
I need to make a correction to the original post; I used the wrong pierce statistic…
RAMS do NOT have mere 40 range armor they have a base pierce armor of 50!! and Siege Work brings it up to 60 pierce armor. This means a springalds needs 13 freaking shots to kill ONE…again that’s THIRTEEN FREAKING SHOTS!!
I think we can agree 13 shots at 3s a shot (after roller shutter triggers) is a lot of shots? And that may NOT be the definition of a counter unit?
IMO, we need something that can properly and efficiently respond to a mass of Rams? lowering the pierce armor from base of 50 down to 40; will not do nearly do enough to creating a balance counter system for the RAM.
Well I would not say it’s causing me angst especially since it isn’t actually happening.
It’s just better design practice to implement as few exceptions to rules as possible. Sometimes exceptions are necessary or their benefit outweighs the inconsistency. This just isn’t one of those times because there are many other ways they could balance rams.
They could be 2 pop
The imperial tech could just be worse than it is now
They could take more bonus damage from their counters
They could be countered by more things or different things
Building health could scale with age or the imp tech for it be stronger (not great, would also have to change torch scaling)
They could be produced more slowly
Other siege could be stronger or cheaper if they just want to keep this level of game ending power
Etc…
Huh, you are right, the wiki was wrong. 50/60 ranged armor is absurd and why springalds feel so bad vs them. I was using the wiki which said 30 base armor. Could easily make ram counters do more damage vs them (or maybe a tech that gives vills more torch damage) or something.