Let's talk about China

IO supervision of Clocktower should NOT return; 200% supervision SHOULD come back; however to make the clock tower NO LONGER USELESS in the grand scheme of things reduce the HP buff down to 25% buff for ALL siege (WHILE clocktower is up…which means its a buff that shows up on each siege and is lost if you destroy clocktower). This will making Fast castle into clocktower a viable strat again but not so OP as it was before.

Regardless of what is done; having the clocktower be the exclusive units with a siege buff WITHOUT supervision means the units need to be special; 50% is special! but not if you can only get 1 every 40-45 seconds. That’s why I suggest Clocktower be where you get special siege upgrades and gives all siege a buff of some sort WHILE supervision STILL doesn’t work on landmarks.

1 Like

Also another idea that has already been introduced but this would be a more interesting way. is to allow repeater bow to get feudal upgrade that allows them dmg against heavy units something like +3 vs heavy units

Tower rush china must delete !

1 Like

I really hate the inability of IOs to supervise the clocktower. It’s an inelegant solution that reeks of being a band-aid fix. I’d prefer a nerf somewhere else than some awkward exception to IO abilities being carved out, and hope this one doesn’t last.

1 Like

Given the little by little adjustments they are making in the positive direction for china, im hopeful for the spring update!!

The increase in tAx does reduce a little bit of early game APM and the new cap does make collecting tax at high tax pools efficient compared to just supervising a gold mining camp. For example 30 vills on stone mine is inefficient but nets you 6 villagers worth if supervised. Now 80 tax collected per 20s is equalivant to 6 base villagers on gold. Yes the supervised 6 villagers is superior to the tax 6 villagers because of eco buffs, but keep in mind if you have enough locations high on twx you can net MORE than 80 tax collected/20s.

Last thing is i hppe spring brings the idea of auto tax late game as thats the onpy thing that will fix taxing larrrrrrrge bases and far far farrr campsn like a stone mine on the edge of the map a billion light years away from any TC. Alternatively or in conjunction I’d like if they expand on the drop off locations for taxes. Having the imperial academy as a drop off is nice but we need more options later in the game.


Clap clap clap. Another month having china as dead civ and even their future plans for civ promise nothing good.

“In addition, we’ve moved all of the Dynasty buildings up one age so they become available at the phase in the game when they are most needed.”

They got no idea. Clap clap

1 Like

I’ve already been given a warning…

Please study the parts of the information revealed so far carefully and understand also there is more they have NOT unveiled.

FYI having the village unlock at the start of the game in dark age is no small thing as its both defense early and cost/time efficient over standard houses. Likewise having the granary in feudal and special monastery in castle are Both (more so the monastery) huge bonuses.

1 Like

What’s wrong with moving dynasty buildings up one age? Granary at feudal is definitely makes the transitioning into farming way less clunky.

1 Like

You do realize that dynasty buildings are unlocked via getting dynasty. You won’t be getting granary at feudal age because it requires 2 castle landmarks. At feudal age village is available. So their notes for future of chinese civ makes no sense.

And no one is willingly make farms at feudal as chinese so it makes even less sense especially when it costs lot of food to get granary.

Unless they mean that in tang dynasty china gets village, in song granary, in yuan pagonda or what ever but it still lefts ming without dynasty building. So even that sounds weird

I believe that’s exactly what they mean.

1 Like

Could be. Its confusing statement but yet again it makes absolutely no sense and is hardly worthy buff that china needs.

There is no way to utilize granary at feudal age cuz it costs 250 food to make one and farms are too expensive. So its not possibility. Would only become relevant at castle age.

Pagoda would be great at castle age, but this will result same gameplay as HRE and makes china rely relics. It would make china basically better HRE with relics. So makes no sense

When I play as the Chinese, I usually find myself in the situation where I have to plant farms in late feudal / early castle, before I unlock Yuan. It’s awkward because I have already planted many farms when I gain access to the granaries. On the other hand, if granaries are unlocked by Song, then the granaries would be available at the time when I start making farms.
So if the new patch does what I think it does, the granaries would be unlocked right in time, if not a bit early.

1 Like

Bro you will never be satisfied. The next patch is already concerning. With strong early eco it might become top tier civ because they are very hard to raid. This is why they are taking as small steps as they can. So it doesn’t end up being next Dehli or Mongols.


This is why it’s extremely important when we each make broad statements like you just did regarding what is practical or not we give a lil persepctive and list our respective elo. And no this isnt a bash!!! This is to make it clear the types of players that would most closely relate to your experiences.

… now i agree granary isn’t cheap at 250w!!! It’s a building that currently works as a buff you apply aftet you’ve already switch to farms. However farming in late feudal is optimal both for safety and efficiency IM-1300-elo-opinion. Alternatively you could go far out onto the map and make a mill and outpost for 150w (65 standard villager seconds) and have that food resource AND useless tax generated be no longer viable after 5mins?

Now your relics take makes no sense? Why would any civ NOT want free relic resources especially if there is a bonus?

I do agree that the granary being late is problematic because if farms have already be planted it cant be utilized well. But the investment to go for granary is too much for feudal unless they make it cheaper.

1 Like

Why would I be satisfied? The changes in last patch were complete bs and now the compensation buff is lackluster. And the fact that they state they want chinese players to utilize taxing more which they’re not addressing the core fundamental issue of taxing. No one is going to sent IO to 20 tiles away from drop of point to collect 80 gold. Its not worth.

Strong early eco means nothing if civ cant survive it to take effect. Song dynasty + 2 TC = 3 TC boom which opponent can just easily match and some civs got way better boost to do so or can be more aggressive to deny the booming.

I already stated when the last nerfs happened that chinas only strength lies in building speed and yet here we’re. China doing more and more tower rushes because they got nothing else to go for them thats even remotely viable and you think next patch fixes it?

While I am hoping for that dynasty landmark discount in the Spring, I think the changes they’ve announced so far are a step in the right direction, and give me confidence that the devs understand how to help China. The tax changes in this patch combined with the Spring update giving us granaries in Song (plus village in Tang and Pagoda in Yuan), provide a very nice gold income source for China starting late feudal/early castle. And don’t forget; the Nest of Bees actually works properly now.

I am hoping for a bit more than what they’ve said so far, but I also don’t think they’ve told us every way they’re going to adjust China yet. I’m willing to be patient and give the devs the benefit of the doubt.
Is China still going to be weak for the next month or so? Probably, but that Nest of Bees fix does help quite a bit. I think they might not be the worst civ anymore

1 Like

I was at 1500-1600 range in 2v2. Only mode I played and solely as chinese.

Farming at feudal is not optimal. Its safer in most cases but its far from optimal. Especially when its heavy investment. If you can get away from picking “free” resources on map thats far more optimal than investing resources to farm set up.

Alternative and most efficient solution is just a mill. If you can get away with it. Also prof scouts can be very worthwhile if you can get away with which offer far greater benefit than farms with granary and is cheaper to get.

??? No idea where you pull this up. I never said civ doesn’t want free relic resources. Pagoda at castle age pushes china to play very similar way than HRE plays which is strategy that relic wishes to change. For China its more expensive to get but gains are greater than HRE 900 vs 1200 resources per minute. This automatically pushes china towards same relic control gameplay as HRE so it makes no sense to push them towards it.

First off on an open map starting 3 TC isnt as easy as you’re supposing it is for most civs. Secondly tower play is a legit playstyle in this game and china is only second to mongols in playing the tower game. 3rd, 40 gold per 20 sec equates to 3 villagers worth on gold as oppose to the 20g/15s that was worth 2 villagers on gold. Likewise the buff upgrade equates tax collecting to 6!!! Vils on gold? Yes i agree we still have an issue when it comes to collecting gold that is super far away from TC and imperial academy…we’ll see if they adress that (hoping for a late game auto tax feature).

Next for the time being IO have return to 200% production speed and like someone jist mentiomed nest of bees should now work correctly. I’m optimistic china in the higher elo ranges will be mid to A tier in terms of win rate.

Let’s be frank team elo doesnt matter… this game is balanced predominately around 1v1s, and team elo is heavily inflated.

Next ignore me as a reference… if you watch leenock or mlord play china you’ll see for yourself what 2 of the best players let alone china players think is efficient.

You said it makes no sense that they are pushing china to play like HRE in terms of relic play? And it’s not 900 gpm to worry about but instead 1200 res per min!!!‽
A couple things.

  1. China’s relic play is lock behind a dynasty and would require building a monastery to make the monks, so by no means could china fast castle fast yuan dynasty fast monks on the field and have res to build 3 pagodas to then have the trickle to support infinite army.
  2. I heard it mentioned that the pagoda would be nerfed to match its age.