List of all useless unique techs and my suggestions about them

Hellooooooo people, i made a nice list about all useless UTs and some suggestions about changing them, i hope you will find it usefull and lets discuss about it, i want to read your opinions.
Huns (Atheism)
Atheism give +100 years for wonders and relics and 50% discount on treason.
My suggestion to change it to:
Enemy Relics generate gold 25% slower, enemy monks regain their faith 50% slower.

Mongols ( Nomads)
Nomads give you (lost houses do not decrease pop headroom).
My suggestion to change it to:
Nomads give you 150 pop headroom (or full pop head room).

Saracens (Madrasah)
Madrasah give you (Monks return 33% of their cost when killed).
My suggestion to change it to:
Monks cost (40 food, 40 gold) or—> 35% cheaper or Mamelukes and Monks 25% cheaper gold cost.

Incas (Andean Sling)
Andean sling give you no minimum range to skirms and slingers).
My suggestion to change it to:
Andean give you +1/+1 range/attack for slingers and skirms or—> spearmen line get +1 range.

Burmese (Howdah)
Howdah gives battle elphants (+1/+1P armor).
My suggestion to change it to:
Arambai +30% more accuracy or battle elephants and Arambai (+1/+1P armor).

Byzantines (Greek fire)
Greek fire gives fire ships +1 range.
My suggestion to change it to:
Stable units have 30 hp or +1/+1P armor

Celts (Stronghold)
Stronghold gives castle +25% fire faster.
My suggestion to change it to:
Woad raider -20 food.

Chinese (Great wall)
Great wall gives walls and towers +30% HP.
My suggestion to change it to:
Just add castles to walls and towers so castle too will get +30% HP.

Cumans (Cumans Mercenaries)
Cumans Mercenaries gives your team 10 free Elite Kipchaks
My suggestion to change it to:
Cumans Mercenaries gives your team 10 free Elite Kipchaks and Kipchaks get +1/+1 range/attack.

Indians (Shatagni)
Shatagni gives HC +1 range.
My suggestion to change it to:
Shatagni gives HC and Elephant archer +1/+1 range/attack.

Italians (Silk road)
Silk road gives you 50% discount on trade units.
My suggestion to change it to:
Genoese Xbows get +15 HP.

Lithuanians (Hill Forts)
Hill forts gives your TC +3 range.
My suggestion to change it to:
Castles have +1 range; TCs have +3 or—> relics generate gold 15% faster.

Slavs (Orthodoxy)
Orthodoxy gives your monks (+3/+3P armor).
My suggestion to change it to:
Boyars and Monks 15% cheaper gold cost.

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These two are useful

I’d be fine with +1/2 armor for Battle Eles. Arambai need a nerf not a stupid buff.

Woads are strong enough, but Stronghold is a useless tech.


Other proposed changes are fine especially the Boyar one.


What is the useful about UTs that you said?!

About Burmese UT i said to give Arambai +1/+1 armor or 30% accuracy and Arambai got many nerfs and Burmese don’t have any archers armor except the first one

Warwolf Trebs are the strongest Trebs. They are like Bombard Cannons. You win every Treb fight with them. Also effective on closed maps fighting siege. Have you seen the RBW2 game between Hera and Yo? Hera won thanks to Warwolf. Remember this technology a price nerf in DE, because it was too cheap.

Andean Sling is helpful when you fight against big number of Infantry. Inca Skirmishers are really strong thanks to this.

Arambai is completely broken, destroy every melee unit in the game. They don’t even need upgrades.


About Incas UT i wonder how would you say it is useful?! Just tell me who is the stupid that want to use skirms and slings as militia or in close fight?!
Giving the Arambia +30% accuracy or +1/1 will not make them OP at all especially Burmese don’t have any archers armor except the first one.

I agree on changing this, but having enemy relics generate gold slower in imp seems still useless…

Let it unlock the 200 pop huns style.

Having monks cost 50 or even 60 gold less could be good.

Hard mo to all. Aztecs already have skirms with more atk and range, and incas already have kamayuks, so they don’t need to also have halbs with +1 range.

Andean sling is already useful, not all UT needs to be strong.

Why nerfing britons trebs, they already are the best ones…

Yeah let’s buff the arambai that we’re just nerfed…

Why give a better bloodlines to a civ that already lack bloodlines? Also, GF is a fine UT, it just need to get its accuracy proportionally adjusted.

I don’t see the point of buffing WR, just include TCs into stronghold, so they become better at defending from raids in the late game.

Chinese are fine, and great wall don’t need to buff their castles.

Again, they lack bracer, what is the point of giving the effect of bracer on the UT? Just give them bracer.

As for the kipchak, just let your allies train them for an higher gold cost.

GC, doesn’t need more HP for sure, and silk road is a fine tech.

Their TC are fine, they help a lot for dealing with late game raids.


I did some changes in my post about some UTs.
Incas need something different for their UT, no minimum range is somehow useless, Celts UT not that much helpful and Italians for sure need something for their GXbows. About Burmese i understand your point but this will not make them broken or that strong since Burmese have nothing special except their UU and their m@a early rush.

this is already pretty much taken by aztecs.

Arambai are already solid units and don’t need buffs.

yes because we should totally make it so that Byzantines literally become the civ with all the best options, with superb infantry, trash, archers, and Cavalry.

Woads are already one of the best UU as is and don’t need buffs, neither do Celts.

oh yes let’s give a civ with Masonry and Architechture +30% HP castles so they have the best castles in the game, Bar none. also this civ definitely doesn’t need buffs.

why do Kipchaks need buffs again?

this civ totally doesn’t need any buffs.


So i understand that you agree to all other UTs changes? I am with you that in general the civs you mentioned is not that much weak or need that change except the Incas they need something better for their UT, but as long as we agree that the rest need a change, that is good

not necessarily agree, just don’t find too much “wrong” with them. the Britons one is edging into the Tatars UT bonus for example.
I think there is better ways to buff Italians then a UT that gives their UU extra HEALTH of all things.


Having 100% accuracy and splash damage on an attack of 200 exchanged for +1 range is a huge nerf, and for sure they don’t need more range on top of their super accuracy to better snipe enemy siege.

Have you try them vs archers? Or other siege (not only trebs)? The blast damage also is needed because like other siege, trebs aren’t affected by ballistics, so 100% accuracy alone isn’t enough against onagers or BBC.

Not all UT needs to be a direct buff to your units, some just made your life easier. The Inca UT allows you to better micro with slingers and skirms.

But celts are already a strong civs, so they don’t need a direct buff, especially not on the woads. If you want to make stronghold a bit more strong let it affect TC, and you would however buff them by a lot.

So they should lose one of the few things that are actually useful? Just buff the GC straight away, not lock the buff behind an UT.

Also, GC HP and armor isn’t for sure the problem of the GC. It’s range is.

Burmese need a rebalance a bit, but their UT is fine. What they need is a nerf on arambai armor (-1) and receive the second archer armor.

But M@A into FC double castle arambai is already one of the most strong a popular strategies, so why buffing them instead of fixing the real problem of the burmese?

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one by one:


I guess it’s a slight improvement but whether or not it’s worthwhile will entirely depend on the cost of the tech.

Gonna skip this one. Don’t know what I think about the tech in general but very not sure about buffing Saracen monks more.

The first one overlaps with Aztecs, so no. Re-think it. You could do just the +1/+1 for slingers, movement speed on the slingers, or something, but Skirms already have Aztec Atlatl.

Your second idea is so busted that there’s just no way to justify it. To put it bluntly, Kamayuks have +12 against cavalry. Halberdiers have +32 against cavalry. With that in mind, massed Kamayuks are terrifyingly efficient against Cavalry when massed. Halbs would be even more absurd without the need to produce mass at a castle and without costing gold. Not to mention, Your halbs would now be the best trash unit in the entire game, bar none, without question. No.

You don’t know the entire facts about this tech. When you research Warwolf, your trebs become 100% accurate in addition to having splash damage. Besides the absurd nature of this unit just winning treb wars (and killing repair villagers) the unit has serious potential as anti-BBC in general and anti-unit in packed areas. Yeah, it doesn’t make sense that this isn’t listed in the tech anywhere, so it makes sense that you wouldn’t know if you don’t play them a lot, but trust me, they are on par with Japanese trebs and Tatar trebs. This is a fantastic tech. Don’t change it.

It’d be okay if this tech was the Imperial tech, but as it’s the castle age tech, I think you’d end up making Arambai just flat broken with the accuracy change. You could do the armor tech option, but again, since this is a Castle UT, their Arambai would have FU armor statistics for Castle Age and I don’t think that’s a great idea. The Arambai are already a problem unit in Castle Age. So it’s a no.

I’m not on board with moving techs from water onto land and vice-versa. I think Greek Fire is a pretty weak tech to be sure, but moving it off water entirely is not a solution I’m going to agree with regardless of what the suggestion is. There’s a lot of things you could do with this tech to make it better and “muh arabia” isn’t one of them. No.

Sure, the tech isn’t great, but discounting the Woad is a big no. Agree with possibly changing the tech, disagree with the target.

Too much overlap with the Byzantines IMO. Maybe a fine tech in the right circumstances too. Chinese are not a bad teamgame civ at all and teamwalling to defend trade is important. This tech could see good use which is all I need to say it’s fine.

Hard no. Think of something else. Kipchaks missing range is the main intended drawback.

Not a weak UT. If you are of the belief that HC needs a bit of a tweak to make them better, Shatagni’s main drawback (like Howdah before it) is that it’s attached to a unit that’s underwhelming, not that the tech is too weak. I believe that to be true. Indian HC are fantastic to use as a result of Shatagni, very similar to Janissaries in that regard.

I also do not believe the Elephant Archer needs any buffs whatsoever, especially a tech buff. It’s already incredibly expensive to get going, and that’s going to be even worse with one more tech to grab. Further, they’re already absurdly population efficient and that’s going to be even worse with one more tech added. It’d make all the problems with the unit worse.

Fantastic tech. No reason to change it.

Second suggestion is a worse Aztecs team bonus. Also, I actually like the functionality of Hill forts and I don’t think it needs to be changed. One castle anywhere on the map with this tech makes pressuring your TC’s with Mangonels impractical. It’s an extremely worthwhile tech in that regard. Not a useless UT. If anything, if it also gave TC’s a slight attack bonus it’d be super good as anti-raiding, but I digress.

Agree with the assertion that orthodoxy is bad. Discount can work, it’s just uninspired. Move faster / Heal faster? Both? Either would be better than flat discount as a replacement for an underused UT. Also don’t like flat discounts for units as a tech. Should just make the unit cheaper if that’s something worthy of a tech, otherwise it’s all tech bloat for no reason.


How to fix Greek Fire:

-Make it allow Byzantines to build Fire Towers.


Or give them +3 damage versus buildings.

You know how quickly Fire Ships would torch docks with just a little bit of bonus damage? They attack at .25 rate. Eight times as fast as an archer. Half of Obsidian Arrows would work four times as fast. Would be very solid.

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That could also work, and would make Mass Fireships a good strategy against Docks.

Also, PSA, everyone who made mention about Warwolf Trebs before me and didn’t explain why they were better than normal Trebs in treb war. A little detail goes a long way. You explain that trebs go 100% accurate after Warwolf and suddenly we can strike it from the list and talk about the subjects for which the discussion is potentially relevant. For the good of the discussion and all that.

And to the devs, please re-write the tech blurb for Warwolf. That accuracy bit should be there.

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