Lithuanian Bonus Relic Damage Should Only be plus 2

[Gaturro7777]

@MatCauthon3

@MightyLancer299

What about +1 for first relic, and +1/2 for each after. Or is that too complicated? Keeps it strong, but makes it hard to get +3, though at least +3 is possible.

why does a deniable bonus need to be nerfed?
like seriously - the winrates, even in team games, where the op said it was a problem, are balanced.

they have literally only 3 bonuses total, one of them pertains to defensive units, one is an eco bonus that has no impact on anything past the early game, and the other one is THE ONLY DENIABLE CIV BONUS IN THE GAME.

It is hard to evaluate if liths are balanced from the TG win rate … In general the win rates have a lower spread in TG as teamplay can reduce the impact of civs.

Either way, i don’t think the bonus needs to be changed… but i still don’t like it

[MatCauthon3]

@DjBillE

Honestly how often are you getting or going up against +4 paladins? Most of the time i get 2 to 3.

doesn’t mean the bonus needs to be nerfed. with lancers change your most of the time 2 or 3 becomes 1 or 2.
to put that in perspective, Teutons get +2 Melee armor Infantry and Cavalry (including Paladins) in imperial age. for FREE. it can’t be denied. no research is required.

[DjBillE]

@MatCauthon3

doesn’t mean the bonus needs to be nerfed. with lancers change your most of the time 2 or 3 becomes 1 or 2.
to put that in perspective, Teutons get +2 Melee armor Infantry and Cavalry (including Paladins) in imperial age. for FREE. it can’t be denied. no research is required.

Im not saying nurf it. Im for keeping it. I have enjoyed the two times i got to +4 but even then it didn’t seem like that big of an advantage. Im asking how often are they facing the +4 that it is making them feel so over powered. Im still using other units to supplement my armies.

[phoenix1089]

@Exradicator

They are for a lot of civ, actually.

yeah you’re right, teutons is a big part of their identity, and ironically TB’s like viet or berber are seen more in 1v1 than actual TGs…

but to think of a few huns, britons, celts, goth, saracen, cuman,indian their TB is a big part of their identity

one could even argue khmer, burmese,chinese have extremely useful TB in 1v1

[FurtherLime7936]

Looks like we need to get back the relic bonus to +5 and include Light Cavalry again JUST to show here how OP was and how balanced is nowdays…
Oh and I still have the release datamod and tried the 16 attack Hussars and 23 attack Leitis and Paladins, that was so OP.

[Gaturro7777]

I love the teuton bonus, You have better armor but You are slower because You don’t have husbandry, and it kind of feels right a heavier knight to be slower

[thieftdp8498]

lithuanian should go back to pre patch. +5 damage to both cav and scout line, king of trash units for the lithuanians

[SauravT]

@BomberGriffin

With plus 4 relics, you basically have what is like a lesser, yet cheaper version of a Persian War Elephant on a horse with less bonus damage taken from Halbs.

The point of elephants (yes attack is high) is using the blast damage to take bunched up fights and the high HP. You mentioned that elephants take 1.9x bonus damage from Halbs but didn’t mention the 3.4x HP of the elephants.

[SauravT]

@Exradicator

It’s as deniable as the aztec relic bonus…which is not that much, really.

The main point of the Aztec bonus is to help in getting main infantry in trash wars. Aztecs may have one of the worst trash or one of the best trash depending on the situations.

Lacking Halberdiers means less bonus damage and less HP. But Garlan wars gives them +2 attack over regular Halberdiers.

Skirmishers have +1 attack and range but lack RA armor.

As an American civ, they naturally lack Hussars. The other 2 american civs have atleast fully upgradeable trash (pure buff).